The Westbrook trade was under the prior front office, I understand it was a bad trade and under Tilman, but my question was more focused on this current regime with Stone, if people's opinions have changed since the beginning of the season. The current front office essentially was responsible for being bad enough that the pick materialized, the fact the WB trade was made I am not focusing on as that was under Morey.
I'm giving Stone an A. I've liked most of his moves from the get go. There's been some luck involved but luck is a part of sports and you've still got to put yourself in position for luck to even matter. The olidipo trade was fine to me. Going and coming. Was not a Levert fan and if you were going to take a chance dipo was a good buy low risk imo. No long term commitment...possibility of sign and trade had he lasted the season and also trading him again mid season like we did. All his other moves have been butter as well. We'll see how this thing develops.
No , they can actually use the full MLE and retain Olynyk for ~$20m and sign all three picks to 120% rookie scale and stay below the tax line
Great news. Will Tilman step up to the plate? I have my doubts, but since he can stay below the LT, the Rockets could come out looking very good.
I like Stone well enough so far, B+ range. But I don't think the last season moved the needle on Tilman. One of the most critical grades for an owner for me is what they do to maintain or improve a top contender... because we systematically and publicy destroyed our 2018 contending team (even before the Westbrook trade with the Carter Williams, Ennis, Shumpert, Knight, Chriss moves) I'd have to be insane to think a season of accumulating draft assets and some questionable trades wipes that slate clean. I can't give Tilman any credit for where we're going without giving him credit for getting here. Stone went from ? to B+ Tilman went from F to D-, I'll be generous, since he went with Stone and hasn't tried to force the team into immediate faux-contention. Granted, they did attempt the Dipo trade, but we're sort of lucky that failed, in a roundabout way.
Yea exactly, the nba has a salary floor so now without tax issues on the books, tillman should be free to spend this amount and he won't have pressure for the tax for another 3-4 years probably so we should be ok until those crossroads. After the new tv deal its said that the entire salary might be covered just by tv money so maybe that will help us too. Sad state of affairs, but if it works out in our favor then so be it at this point
I did the math in another thread several weeks ago .... just after seasons end. Keeping Olynyk in the 20m range & using the NT-MLE (hard capped) and they could stay just below the tax line . But that's a pretty expensive team by lottery standards - It's one that's planning for the end of John Wall's contract to be back in the conversation as a contender. If you don't spend that money now , you've lost the asset - Bird Rights / MLE. This is what I'm waiting to see when it comes to Tilman - Did he learn that you can't be cutting corners and expect to be a contender or does he still believe he can play in the margins .... That's a good way to put it - Stone went from a complete questionmark to a solid B+ (or better). Tilman .... all we can hope is that he learned from his mistakes and is willing to spend to win. If he gives Stone the money to work with , this team can be back in contender status in 22/23. If he's just a cheap b*stard .... we just have to hope he goes broke and sells the team.
Are you forgetting the fact that he was offered an extension? How does that fit into your evaluation?
Agreed, my intent was to have two choices, one being the front office has been and will be successful, the other being no they have not and will not be successful.
Tillman needs to step up and we should not let him off the hook when he lies about going all in - that being said he was 100% right about resetting the culture - the Harden culture of entitlement was toxic to winning a ring. DD
Tilman probably had a lot to do with that, like Leslie used to do as well, anything to stay relevant. Let’s see if Stone truly believes in a few years of draft picks or will just do as the owner pleases. Has to be truly one of the most difficult jobs in sports.
Are you forgetting that Stone offered the extension while being almost certain that Olidipo wouldn't accept it? These are Victor's words: https://www.google.com/amp/s/rocket...ract-extension-offer-was-a-long-time-ago/amp/ But thanks for reminding me of that. That actually makes me feel better about Stone because he seems to understand the human side of things beyond just the numbers.
I agree. Harden was our best player, but he isn't a culture setter. He is sort of like Leonard. Quiet, does the job, but hes not sitting there and raising the bar for the others. What the best players do due, is raise the intensity and what is on the line. Harden in a time of load managemeetn could've clocked in his stats, he continued to innovate his game be it leading the league in sccoring or assists. To do that over a marathon of seasons isn't light hearted, in this talented league it takes grit, perserverence and a strong drive to do something great. Our Culture was in large part standard now for not just the nba, but most businesses. If any employee is generating more than 50 percent of the revenue which the stars in nba who brunt the main marketing do, then they will have a lot of sway and power. but its all about cohesion. MJ was considered a stat guy who couldn't win for 7 years of dominating, he got frustrated demanded help, a couple of hall of famers came and now all of a sudden the culture was different. Lebron also dominated for 7 years individually, never could close out the chip, he realized and went to play with some win now hall of famers, and "culture changed". Kobe was the ultimate laker right...but nah, he demanded get me help or get me out of here...was he a loser? No, basketball just isn't played 1-1. Don't forget, our very own Dream also wanted out of houston...itsa a business, and much to our embarassment we let him walk in his twilight years rather than made sure as we should that 34 always is a Houstonian. So harden definitley isn't blameless, I think his lack of adjustments, defensive energy should all be called outMDA's rotation and lack of emphasis on D? That too. But the trajectory for us changed with the culture of tilman who not only would cheap out during a window, but also lie about it to the press and fans putting him in rarified ******* air. He talked about culture change when CP3 was there too...but he ran out the guy who set the locker room culture in Trevor Ariza Former Houston Rockets guard Chris Paul was on the Knuckleheads podcast with Darius Miles and Quentin Richardson and explained the impact of the Rockets losing Ariza. “People don’t realize, that’s the biggest thing that we missed. That was tough when we lost [Ariza] because he sorta was like the glue. He was that glue for our team.” He then replace Ariza with James Ennis(minimum contract), that very season while Ennis was in our rotation taded him for a 2nd round pick in Feb. The month before our other replacement, Daniel House, was cut midseason for 2 months for tax reasons. All while Harden is playing big minutes, coming back to empty lockers mid season while he sees Cavs over spend on JR, Love, Tristan, or Raptors over spend on Marc Gasol, basically teams in their windows go all in , and then his owner demands more with a worse product. Rich Paul said it recently, he would never send a star player to an owner or franchise lke that...
in ways I agree. Its like Kobe or a few others great. There is a culture of these guys who are at the peak of their games that raises the bar for everyone on the team to go out and perform right and not waste it. Harden was in that historic, even by hall of fame standards, level and the team and city should want to take advantage of that. Instead Houston watered down the margins, depth, and then blamed harden for doing what MJ, Kobe, Bron all did...realize after years of individual dominance, you still need depth, chemistry, and the squad and a franchise willing to support that window
Wood and Tate were players the Rockets planned on pursuing before Morey left. They were already “on the big board”. Supposedly KMJ was as well. Now Stone deserves credit for continuing course but it isn’t as if they were his unique ideas. As for the Harden trade, the #2 pick in this draft has to be figured in. Had the Rockets held onto Harden or taken the Sixers offer, they almost would have been guaranteed to lose their pick to OKC. So I tend to believe the unknown of the Nets trade is better than the known with Ben Simmons. The Allen trade was bad. Oladipo was a poor gamble and the way it was all handled was amateurish. It wasn’t a good look but whatever. We will figure out if Stone is good. We have the #2 pick, two other #1’s and decisions will need to be made with Wood (trade him with his value high), Gordon and Wall… and we will be high in the lottery next year if the Rockets are smart. A lot will change in the next 18 months and we will know who is good at their job and isn’t.
