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The CP3 effect

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by LosPollosHermanos, Jun 30, 2021.

  1. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    Healthiest team wins the finals. The Suns are the healthiest team. Also, the KD Warriors not existing helps.
     
  2. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Narrative of one of the former Rockets wins title before Jimmy.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    stats matter but in close games character comes out and Harden has none. That's why CP outscored Clippers 20-12 in the fourth to get over the hump and Harden-led rockets went 0-27 straight. If you look at total averages for both series Harden seems like better player but I am 100% Rockets win those series with CP instead of Harden
     
  4. Asian Sensation

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    bmelo and Madmanmetz like this.
  5. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Harden has a better chance at being the President of the United States.
     
  6. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    yeah and thats why you maintain and preserve your health and you temper minutes and temper how hard vs how smart you play
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Congrats to CP3! Well deserved first trip to the finals and just wish it had been in a Rockets' uniform..
     
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  8. Madmanmetz

    Madmanmetz Member

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    CP3 doing his thing when it matters most. Too bad people fall in love with stat chuckers. My eyes tell me who can execute when they pressure is truly on.

    Harden ran the best chance for the Rockets to get a ring out of town and ruined the franchises chance for a ring in the process.

    Good luck CP3, at least I have a reason to pay attention to this crappy league for a few more weeks.
     
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    hakeem94 likes this.
  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    CP3 and Djoko's blood doping program has really improved their performance.
     
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  11. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    Give me a break with „healthiest”…. CP played against LeBron, Jokic, now PG. Every playoffs theres injuries i remember when Bron played without Love or Irving.. GSW without Durant and Iggy etc. Theres always some men down
     
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  12. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    If you score 40 pts consecutively in a 30 pt blowout is it meaningless? If you look at how coaches do things they operate more on time rather than pts, if there is like 2 mins left and 30 pt lead, yeah then that is meaningless. If thats the case the star should be sitting so it wouldnt reflect in his stats to begin with. If the star is getting PT most likely it isnt meaningless as if it was the coach would sit him and not risk injury to his star for something meaningless.

    I dont really get your point of "importance" there us a set value to every shot it is determined as 1-3 pts. Are you saying the game winning 2 pt shot is worth more than the 3 pt shot in the first quarter? If they missed the 3 pt shot in the first quarter the game winning shot would be meaningless as 2 pts wouldnt cut it your team would be down by 3. So no some shots arent worth more than others there is already a set value for these shots.

    The game winning shot is just human bias and emotion attaching more importance to the last shot because it is more dramatic. Theres no such thing as a game winning shot if there is coaches would sit their stars the entire game and just play them in the 4Q to keep them fresh for the last possession. Why not just play Kobe 10 mins a game? 9mins to warm up and then that last min to hit that game winning shot? Right? It's the freaking game winning shot, if you hit that you win the game....lol
     
    #92 roslolian, Jul 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  13. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    It's pretty simple. Not all points accrued on the scoreboard are of equal value in impacting who wins the game or, ultimately, who wins a championship. If the rules were such that point differential at the end of the game was meaningful -- for example, teams are seeded at the end based on total point differential at season's end, or a championship is won according to total point differential during the postseason with each team playing an equal number of games -- then it could be argued that every point has equal value. But that's not how it works. That's why I said that the importance of a made basket within the game will vary according to the score and time remaining; because the change in probability of a team winning or losing after a made basket will vary according to those factors. The hypothetical scenarios you brought up don't change that fact.

    To put it starkly, scoring a basket on the last possession of a blowout is essentially meaningless (as I think you recognize based on your second sentence), while scoring a basket on the last possession of a tied game to win game 7 of the NBA Finals isn't. I don't make that statement because of human bias or emotion, but rather based on the rules of the game that determine who wins and the rules that determine who the eventual champion will be.
     
  14. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Member

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    I’ve never liked Chris Paul even when he was a rocket, but I don’t like the way James Harden dealt with him on our roster
     
    LosPollosHermanos likes this.
  15. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Member

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    Suck it Fat Boy
     
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  16. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    If you use that kind of logic then you should only count the stats when the team wins the game right?

    If your team lost doesnt matter if you scored 100 pts or even 1000 pts it is "meaningless" just like scoring ina blow out. A loss is a loss whether its a blow out or a close loss so by your logic nothing the player did in that game mattered.

    Like I said there is already a value for these shots in bball, you cant go around rearranging the value as you see fit depending on what you think is more impactful lol. If you think the game winning shot is more valuable than the first shot in the game then what value would you attach the game winning shot? Is it worth 10 pts now? And the first shot is worth like 0.1 pts? Lol
     
    #96 roslolian, Jul 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    No, I don't think that follows from what I was saying. The importance of a made basket is based on how it affects the probability of you winning a game in the moment. Whether your team ultimately wins or loses doesn't retroactively change that. If it has zero effect, then it has zero importance; if it swings the probability from virtually 0 to, say, 80%, then it is hugely important.

    A point is a point, but that doesn't mean all points that go on the scoreboard are equally important to winning the game. As you said: "if there is like 2 mins left and 30 pt lead, yeah then that is meaningless." How is that different from what I'm saying?
     
  18. HardenVolumeOne

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    cp3 is 36, harden is 31. Harden might still win a ring before age 36
     
  19. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    I don't get what you are saying so what happens when the moment is passed? And how does that connect to you scoring in a blow out? I mean we are evaluating from the stand point that the game already ended right? So the moments you are saying are all already done. There a lots of instances where teams come back from blow outs so playing in a blow out doesn't necessarily mean what you are doing IN THE MOMENT is useless. You will only know it is useless at the end of the game, but according to you whether your team ultimately wins or loses doesn't change the outcome so again there is a contradiction there. You are saying it is important if it causes you to win the game but then you are saying you winning or losing the game doesn't change the value of the shot retroactively. What I'm saying is supposed there is a 30 pt lead right? In the moment, you think what you are doing now is useless. But then your team gets in the zone and you are now tied in the last posession. So then you look back and think well if I didn't score 15 pts when we were down 30 we wouldn't be in this position to win a game. So now you have 2 different moments when the value of the those 15 pts seem to change. Now it's the end of the game and your team lost. So you realize then everything you did was useless, you could have scored 0 pts or 3 or 9 or 15 pts you still would have lost, it only would've changed the outcome if you scored 16 pts. So which among these "moments" would you use? Every single moment the probability will change right? So you can't use the measurement "in the moment" cuz the moment changes every second.

    The difference is just because it didn't win you the game doesn't mean the pts lose their value. It's like saving money for a new Iphone. If a new Iphone costs like 1500 usd and you only have 1400 usd does that mean your money is now worth zero just cuz its not enough to meet the 1500 price? The value is just not enough to meet your objective but it doesn't mean you have 0 usd in your possession at the moment. If you had like 1499 usd and you got your final dollar to meet the required 1500 usd can you say that final dollar is more valuable than the first dollar in your account? Cuz that's what you are trying to argue and that's what doesn't make sense to me. The end result that you have (winning the game or that iphone) is a culmination of every single dollar in your account, you can't isolate one dollar and say ok this dollar is worth more than the other dollars cuz this dollar enabled me to reach that 1500 milestone. You can argue that sometimes it is clear you will be extremely short or you will over exceed that target, but I'd say those are few and far between as you will stop saving once it is clear you will not hit or over exceed your target already (in this case the star will be taken out most of the time so you won't find Lebron clocking in pt during a 30 pt blowout for example)

    Some dollars are easier to earn than others, but that doesn't change their value which is still 1 dollar.
     
    #99 roslolian, Jul 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  20. HardenVolumeOne

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    If cp3 is this great leader how come he choked so many times in the playoffs with those stacked clippers and hornets teams lol
     

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