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Cade, Green, Kuminga, or Suggs?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mr Woods, Mar 12, 2021.

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Who should the Rockets draft?

  1. Cade Cunningham - 6’7 PG, 220 lbs, 19 yrs old

    414 vote(s)
    68.8%
  2. Jalen Green - 6’5 SG, 180 lbs, 19 yrs old

    61 vote(s)
    10.1%
  3. Jonathan Kuminga - 6’8 SF, 210 lbs, 18 yrs old

    33 vote(s)
    5.5%
  4. Jalen Suggs - 6’4 PG, 205 lbs, 19 yrs old

    50 vote(s)
    8.3%
  5. Other

    44 vote(s)
    7.3%
  1. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Don't forget Ben Simmons. His drive was a big question coming out of the draft. Those questions about checking out and going through the motions arise every playoffs when you realize the guys done no advancing in his scoring ability. No bother with the shooting form or fix his free throws. Nothing. He's 24, year 4, and really year 5 because he had a whole year to practice shooting when he hurt his foot after being drafted. The hard work would have shown by now, but nothing.
    Cade and Green are driven. I think that is apparent.

    KPj who has been going through immature phases and off court trouble had a huge Harden like game in a small sample size with horrible defense and horrible %'s and im worried his ego would blow up and now he's already calling himself Franchise. Normally i'd love the confidence, but not delusion. Not coming off of almost falling into the 2nd round because of your antics, not coming off a locker room disaster over a locker move and being traded for peanuts. We all already know he's super talented. That one got me worried he's just not going to figure it out. You aint the franchise bro, you're basically on your last chance in the NBA and have yet to put together 30 NBA starts. He could easily have no choice but to play overseas until he figures it out and matures if he doesn't work out here.
    Then you got Wood who i really like and walking 20 and 10's aren't easy to come by, but are they winning 20 and 10s? He now thinks he's a max player. Does that 20 and 10 on a max contract move the needle? 20 and 10 max contract and soft spoken/lack of leadership and possibly physically fragile? I dont think so.

    This is why Cade is creating a bigger gap from Green for me. Cade is clearly years ahead in maturity and leadership. He's got a grown man's voice and presents himself as such. He steps in as the Alpha of our team immediately and our team really needs that. Drafting either Cade or Green probably sets off KPj and he goes unpredictable again when his ego is bruised. Cade has the better chance of getting KP in line. Green seems more like one of the buddies. Like your mention of Royce White, i fear KPj might have some kind of personality disorder. He's clearly on a super high right now and that's why the Franchise post worries me. One thing goes wrong and he's back down on a super low again.

    IF we go Green, i might be in small company, but i'd look to trade KPj while his value is higher.
     
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  2. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    You might be right. I would still like to retain KPJ , despite these concerns.
     
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  3. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    My outlook on Mobley and Green. Since we are discussing these two principally as guys that would probably be in play at pick 2 or 3 I wanted to give my take on both to progress the discussion. I am going to try and avoid player comps given that that can controvertial.

    Jalen Green: prototypical size at around 6'5'' with a 6'7'' wingspan. Plus athleticism as an elite run/jump athlete. While jumper is not elite, for a guy whose bread and butter is going to be going to the basket it is borderline elite. Wiry strong though he would be better served adding some mass. Not a great defensive player but willing to put forth the effort so likely will be above average as he gets bigger and adds some experience. Court vision is not a strength given he has been best served up to this point being the man and playing hero ball. I think he will be a very capable scorer once he gets used to playing with bigger and better players. I see his ceiling as a 25/3/3 type guy and his floor as 18/2/2.

    Evan Mobley: Finesse big with elite physical profile. Thin build that would have been a true problem in other eras but is still going to cause problems as he can be pushed under the basket for rebounds and bodied away from shooters as a defender/shot blocker. Mobility will allow him to switch onto perimeter players where his length should allow him to give a cushion and still contest shots. Has the athleticism and length to challenge at the rim. So his defense projects as elite. Offensively his jumper is going to need to improve to be a threat from outside but he can handle the rock better than most bigs and is a better passer than most other center prospects. Like most bigs he is going to rely on teammates to get him the ball in positions to score. Ceiling is around 20/9/3 with 3-ish blocks and a steal. Floor is 12/7/1 with a block and steal per game.
     
  4. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    He's no doubt a top 4 talent in this draft. I think he'd fall all the same due to his immaturity and off court issues. He fell hard in a pretty weak class imo. The fact is 29 other teams passed on specifically because of his issues and despite knowing his immense talent and then the team that drafted him dumped him for nothing. This class is much stronger than that '19 one outside of Zion and Ja top tier talent.
     
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  5. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

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    Minny has had recent first picks overall
    Cleveland has had recent first picks overall

    It needs to be the rockets can’t keep having the same teams with first picks overall.
     
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  6. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Seriously. Clevleand got rewarded with 3 after LeBron left which set up their championship because LeBron never returns if they dont get those assets.
    Minny has blown a lot in their history but pairing 2 #1 picks there would not make sense. Sounds bad to say, but it would b better for the NBA to just let the pick fall so Warriors can get it.
    Orlando has had Shaq and Dwight and couldn't keep or win with either. Penny might as well be a #1 since he was traded for the #1. They've had lot of chances and blown a lot of picks.
    OKC had 3 HOF'ers on the smae team and couldn't keep the 2 most important. They had their recent chance.
    Detroit drafted Darko in a top 3 ever draft class but still won a ring.
    Houston's last top pick had his career cut short due to injury + we just lost our star and handed the NBA a media darling in the Nets. We're up. We're due. I want b2b #1 picks. We've proven we can compete for long periods of time. Were not a dumpster franchise that's going to let a future star rot like these other teams. If anything, the NBA needs us to be good because the media loves to hate us.
     
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  7. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Are you saying that ALL 7 footers with great wingspans should be taking more 3's regardless of efficiency or skill?

    Rudy Gobert shooting 3's without a conscience would be hilarious.

    Durant is a generational player, he is not the norm.
     
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  8. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    IF the ROX draft Green its because the play styles compliment one another between KPJ and Green. KPJ THRIVES in setting up others. Seems to enjoy that role and to me seems like scoring is an afterthought for him. Even when the team needs points he tends to defer and want someone else to be "the man" ... enter a scoring threat like Green. He knows what he's on the court for and he will not hesitate. Seems to possess the killer mentality and Im not sure why KPJ would not be in the picture if Green was on the team? Strange. For me there is more redundancy and overlap when you try to pair Cade with KPJ at which point moving Scoot would make more sense.
     
  9. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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  10. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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  11. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    KPJ does thrive with the ball, especially in the P/R, but I still don't want him as the full-time PG.

    I'm not comparing him to Donovan Mitchell, but functionally speaking, if you watch Utah with Mitchell at the 1 (with Conley out vs. LAC), their ball-movement is a lot worse, and the team is suffering for it (only 16.4 APG as a team for the series). And this is with Mitchell still technically tearing up their defense in the P/R (34.0ppg 4.6apg). Conley acts as an offense stabilizer, and can play off the ball when Mitchell is rolling.

    Obviously if we get Cade, he's going to be the "guy" over KPJ (unlike Conley/Mitchell), but he's also naturally a stabilizing force. Green would add firepower from the wing spot but we'd become iso-central if KPJ/Green was our backcourt of the future.

    Long story short, I think KPJ is best suited as a P/R 2-guard, and I don't think Green can guard 3s at the next level. I know positional labels don't matter as much, but I don't have a ton of faith in either of those guys becoming plus-defenders.

    I'm also wary about drafting Mobley and building around two bigs in today's game where you need 2-way versatility. I think I'd give the edge to Green/Mobley over Suggs as prospects, but for us, I might lean Suggs if we don't get Cade.
     
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  12. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    That's an excellent take @Caesar

    I'm in agreement.......would probably say that Simmons and Embiid
    doesn't work and that's why Simmons doesn't grow as a player; but
    yes Embiid/Tobias Harris on the team shouldn't keep one from practicing
    and Improving FT's and/or shooting %.

    My fear is the Rockets do go "Best Player Available" and we end up with
    Wall......Eric Gordon......Porter Jr........Cade or Green......then draft Jaden Springer
    and Cam Thomas. That's duplicates I don't want or need.

    I do feel Tuesday will determine the Porter future with the team.
    DL-day for the Rockets. Draft Lottery day.

    Porter becomes expendable in certain situations or outcomes......I still
    don't want the Rockets to give up 1st rounders to move Wall/Eric Gordon.
    But I also need the young guys to get more usage% and touches.

    I hate the Process that Philly did. If we only go BPA, we may end up with
    7 PG/SG's fighting for 10 minutes of game time with no one progressing
    or getting better. A bottle neck of players at PG/SG and none of them happy.
     
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  13. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    I dont know. Scoot is as gifted a passer as there is in this league. Bold statement I know, but being able to thread the needle and hit guys in stride and put them in positions to be successful is a skill all its own. Mitchell is a scoring guard. That is his job. Its why Conley is there, and while MItchell had his best assist year yet (on a great complimentary/shooting team) KPJ had a BETTER assist year on a worse team with lesser teammates and shooters. Scoot just has a knack for finding the right guy on most plays, and I dont understand how he's been relegated to a PnR guard. He can shoot from all levels and will make defense pay for sagging, and still would rather pass first. ISO ball is a testament to coaching more than anything and it does seem to be a staple of the last 2 coaches here - may be an aesthetic displeasure more than anything.

    Defense is certainly something to be concerned about. I feel Green has all the tools to become a + defender. Scoot so far makes me pull my hair out at times, but I want to chalk it up to youthful inexperience (using my mustard and ketchup blinders over here). KPJ offers gravity to make a defense collapse and has the mentality to distribute vs forcing. I like that in a player.

    I agree with the Bigs vs Littles opinion and the dynamic in a wing centric NBA. Im out on Suggs because I do see KPJ as the future PG for this team. Too much volatility when you start to overlap similar players for the sake of "BPA" instead of using some rationale in roster building.
     
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  14. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    The NBA has been moving in that direction.

    This is how the NBA has gone from league average of 36% from 3 to 39%
    this season. Now everyone is expected to shoot 3's....or they are getting weeded
    out of the league.


    Is Mobley going to help spread the court and create space or just be another 215
    pound paper weight like Claxton?

    Claxton played 1:39 seconds two games ago and 2:57 seconds last game
     
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  15. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    KPjr needs a lot of touches, as Harden did when he arrived in Houston.

    I've said KPjr is a talent but that the Cavs used him incorrectly. They needed
    to give KPjr the keys to the car sooner. Not waiting on Sexton to run things
    right. Now KPjr is labeled a malcontent. He understands he was being
    used wrong and lashed out.

    You might be making the same mistake trying to force KPjr to share so much
    time and USG% with other players also wanting to shine. You got to know your
    personnel. KPjr has a shakey demeanor....you have to let him spread his wings
    or you will probably be looking at an explosion.

    He is the type of cat that will feel claustrophobic if you have too many facilitators
    around him. He is best as a Harden when he came to Houston. That Harden had
    to get Lin and Dwight Howard out of his way.

    I appreciate good conversation with a wise person such as yourself.
     
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  16. Denovo

    Denovo Member

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    Nahh KPJ is wayy too young to be this hard on. He just became legal to drink. Maturity takes time.

    Cade is an anomaly a 30 year old man in a 18-19 year old body.

    Cade also had his father to teach him to be a man Kevin lost his at 4 years old.

    Give him time to grow and learn from his mistakes.
     
  17. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    I agree to an extent. If he acts up in a severe way, and you let it slide? Does he respect the 2nd chance or does he never learn?
     
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  18. COMPAQ CENTER

    COMPAQ CENTER Member

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  19. Denovo

    Denovo Member

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    It depends on him. He may learn the first time he may learn the 5th time.

    It’s so far so good right now tho. He hasn’t been a problem during his time with us.

    He handled the g league stint, tanking/losing, injury and inconsistent role/minutes well. Good chemistry with the team and staff.

    We already have videos of him working on his game this off-season.

    it’s a lot of positive to take from his time and development since the trade.

    I would only hold him accountable for problems he has as a Rocket.
     
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  20. Denovo

    Denovo Member

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    Corrosion, cheke64 and Bo6 like this.

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