Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

Stone sitting back (on his couch I get it) sipping his tea right now. A max player you can’t play in the clutch is ridiculous.

 

I was wrong. Simmons and Wall would not have worked for more than an average playoff team. The Rockets would be stuck in an awkward middling situation with difficulty to improve. Bottoming out and gathering picks was probably the best move. The question becomes whether the draft assets from that 76ers trade + the assets from eventually flipping Simmons + having a young defensive star in Thybulle was the better more malleable move? I think that will become clearer on Tuesday because I believe the Rockets would have been around the 6-8 seed with Simmons/Wall/Thybulle/Wood/Eric even with their injuries. Oladipo could not have been a worse player for the Rockets. What an atrocious gamble. Whoever in the organization believed that Oladipo could be a two way star in the year 2021, should take a time out for the foreseeable future.

I still don't think the Rockets should have traded Harden when they did, but if Tuesday works out in favor of the Rockets, the gamble paid off. I'm more cautious in my moves and a 50/50 proposition isn't something I take. The Rockets did everything in their power to make amends for the horrific Westbrook trade and put themselves in the best position to get a new franchise player in Cade Cunningham. The odds are low at14%, but that's significantly higher odds than what the Rockets would have had to win a championship with Harden this past season.

Picks 2-4 will be great but only Pick #1 will truly make trading Harden when they did, the best move. If the Rockets end up with Pick #5, then the reasoning behind me not wanting to take the gamble will be in plain view. Hopefully we don't get to that.

 

I’d take Tyler Herro from Miami and keeping our pick this year before I take Simmons and waste time trying to build around him

 

You just keep your shitty hands out of your mouth, cholera breath.

 

But what's your take on Ben Simmons though?

 

Time to buy low on Simmons? He's gone in Philly if they don't win this series vs the Hawks. No way he can stay after this collapse.

FWIW John Wall for Ben Simmons works on RealGM. Make it happen, Murray.

 

I would need Morey to include the "Daryl Special" and add in 2 pick swaps and 2 unprotected 1sts.

 

I still like him.

I appreciate elite defense, especially 6'10 and can switch 1-5.

Never said he was franchise player but #3 offensive option and as a point center.

Only 24.

That said he is not having a great playoffs. But let's not act like he has not put up a 40 point near trip dub THIS SEASON.

And this is without shooting 3's and below average from stripe.

 

Typically, as we saw with chris paul. People will pile on fast.

the line on ben simmons is what he does have, you simply can't teach. Not his athleticism, height, coordination at that size is maybe only shared with him and KD. He is an elite defende who can guard 1-5 today, elite playmaker, vision, and at getting in the paint.



I'm looking at his form here and its not irreparable. I'd say lonzo's was more worryingly awkward. So thats why when I see that form I don't think its totally hopeless.

That said, the major issue is his growth and how much hes evolved or put in the work each summer. Is he simply relying on his gifts talents and vision that he had achieved and came in with and not improved upon? Thats more worrying. That said, I've seen players 30 post improving their shots, ben is starting from the lowest place. I'm going to see how he responds this summer at which point if theres no tangible improvement or vision, then you start really worrying.

But EMbiid and simmons were never a complimentary pair

 

I appreciate elite playmaking and defense too but not for $35 mil a year. Not even Draymond Green makes that kind of money and he's actually a clutch shooter in the playoffs. My beef was never his skill but his fit on a team with that salary.

 

Dislike the contract too but it is nothing compared to Wall's.

And Wall is even worst system fit and lacks ability to even carry his team to playoffs.

Again, Simmons is only 24.

And his skillset fits with both Wood and Porter IMO.

 

I appreciate your consistency in defending Simmons, however, the age thing in this scenario is a moot point considering he's came out and said shooting is not something he's willing to change/improve. Could he change his mind years down the road and adapt a la Jason Kidd? Sure but I don't think Simmons is going to change unless something monumental happens.

 

How old is Simmons?

 

Like all top 3 picks, if Simmons didn't have that #1 attached to him he would be perceived and valued on a completely different scale.

 

Where did he say hes not wiling to change or improve? I have yet to see that and it would be truly more worrying if he said that, let alone publicly.

As you mentioned, Kidd, lebron all improved greatly post 30. they all started much higher off that simmons anyways and refined it. But simmons doesnth have bad form, if this year doesnt put him in the gym all summer locked up to get better then that will be truly worrying. He is young, he is a niche player. Even rondo can be brilliant with the right time, useless without and he has some of those factors where he is elite in teh right scenerio

 

Yeah. But to be fair, the Warriors had a lot of smart offensive players for Draymond to set up. Simmons doesn't have that. But how many teams can assemble a group like the Warriors?

 

Simmons is playing in the wrong era. His awful offense would of been more forgiving in prime J Kidd years, but it's a lot less forgiving now when teams are so damn efficient at putting up points due to the amount of threes that are taken during a game.

 

Good question. I’m not sure anyone has mentioned his age over and over in this thread.

 

I'm glad we didn't trade for him.