That's the point I was making .... Those numbers were unrealistic - No one in the league hit them last year. Still , I think Mobley has a long way to go on the offensive end to live up to a top 3 draft spot .... and there's a good chanc ehe doesn't get there.
Stat line was hyperbolic but you got the point of my post from your first sentence. It is a good bet that Mobley is a plus defender given what he brings to the table. And while is offensive game is not on the same level (yet?), he will still score points off of hustle and having other guys set the table for him.
Right but Jalen Green is definitely NOT 6'3 small in the likes of CJ McCollum. He played against vets and other draft prospects who have been officially measured and doesnt look small in those regards. Sure he has a petite frame, but im banking on him hitting the weights and the HTown food scene and getting himself ready to take the abuse of 82. Suggs is a pitbull and obviously thicker from his football days so I feel his body could take a long season better and him and Cade are the most ready day 1 guys, but im a fit and chemistry dude. Im not down with the twin towers thing with Mobley and Wood and Im not down in bringing another PG on the team when I feel the future is with KPJ. Just my opinion on roster building and the state of the NBA game today. Green and Porter Jr offer you a dynamic scoring backcourt with everyone on the team assured in their role(s) and you basically just add Green to the mix without having to shuffle JST or KMJ around in other scenarios. Defense would give me the jitters, but I have to hope that they can figure it out - this league has reverted to a "I will outscore you" mentality with the ROX offensive revolution that you can see all over the league anyway. Hit the 3, get to the lane and make your free throws.
I don't know how tall he is so I'll yield here. I'm not big on Green anyway. I don't view Wood or KPJ as franchise players. Until we have a franchise player, I don't want to draft for fit. Just give me BPA and we'll deal with the rest later. For example, Kings passing on Luka for Bagley because they thought Luka would overlap too much with Fox is a decade-long franchise crippling mistake.
Even if you think that KPJ and/or Wood are guys that should be built around (ie draft guys that fit with them), I think you have to consider the fact that Wood is fragile (and could bounce in 2 short seasons) and that KPJ can be a volatile individual given some of his own issues/demons. You have to get the best player and then figure it out later.
I'm 100% with you VC. Cade and Green are can't miss "best players available" that you don't pass up. Suggs, Mobley, Kuminga are more questionable. Suggs is a stabilizing presence that can do many things well like the Celtics Dennis Johnson.....winner; especially when surrounded by talented players. Bird, McHale, Parrish.....Kispert, Timme, Filip Petrusev. Future replacement of Wall or we can draft a defensive PG later in the draft. Either is fine with me. In terms of Beverley type as Porter/Wood/Cade or Jalen facilitating. Add Wall/E Gordon to the mix this one season. Defensive PG to go with Khyri is more important to me. Fit over BPA. Mobley: twin towers doesn't work for me. They will be dueling banjos of taking turns on the injured list. Kuminga: I have his ceiling greater than Tate/KMjr as SF. _______________ With Wall/Augustin/Khyri/EGo/KPjr...I don't see PG as a "must have" drastic need. same with SG: E Gordon/Porter/Brooks. SF: KMjr/Tate can man the position for one more year. PF and Center are issues that need to be addressed at some point? Wood needs an upgrade at backup PF.....Center. I'm not sold Mobley can do that.
If the Warriors get the 6th pick, does #6 + Wiseman get them the #1 or #2 pick if the Rockets have neither? Imagine Mobley or Green there. Imagine Cade filling in the SF spot for GS. OKC another one- if they get the #1 pick or even #2 or #3 + our pick falls? Is that possible for us to get #5 pick and OKC picks there or if we dont' land top 4, it will be in the teens and OKC picks there? 1 more week. Cleveland got rewarded with 2 #1 picks after LeBron left them. What's the NBA going to give us for sending Harden to their new favorite little superteam? We did the NBA and Harden a solid. Time to pay up. We want B2B #1 picks. "Hey, TIlman, it's Adam. Look, i know you're hoping for the #1 pick, but China is still angry and need i remind you how much the salary for the #1 pick is? We appreciate your cooperation in shaping the Brooklyn Nets to become a superteam. We envision the Warriors vs Lakers WCF next year. If you can do us another favor and accept the #4 pick, you retain the pick while allowing Golden State to position themselves for a trade into the top 3. You also save a substantial amount of money on the #4 pick's rookie contract. We'll keep you in mind at a later date. MMMkay? MMMkay. "
Thats fair. I have seen enough to feel comfortable building with Wood/KPJ/KMJ/JST as a nucleus myself. Draft slot will be paramount in the assessment of BPA anyway. I dont view the drop-off as great between Cade and Green as it was between Luka and Bagley and in between the two draft classes in general.
Green: I am not on the Green as cant miss prospect bus. I think he will be good, I think he will be able to score but what else does he bring to the table? How many titles did Arenas win? How many teams with Zach Lavine have finished over .500? If the Rockets were picking 5-10 then I think Green would be a great get but in the top 3 or 4? I am not there right now. Add in the fact that he doesnt come in with height or a plus wingspan and I am personally putting in the the next tier down from the Kobe/Wade/MJ tier of cant miss prospects. This really isnt Green hate so much as it is a testament to how good I think Cade and Mobley can be. Suggs: Again, in this draft, a top 4 pick is too rich for my blood. I think Suggs will have a long career and probably be a winner but he is a complimentary piece, not the franchise. Dennis Johnson is a good comp to that end. I think Suggs' intangibles are great but I dont think you use such a high pick on those guys. Cade: Franchise player potential. He can conceivably play 1-4 with his height/weight and length. Will be the straw that stirs the drink. I think he is a potential 25/6/6 guy in the NBA. A less athletic Grant Hill with a jumpshot. For the Rockets he can play with any of their young pieces given his versatility. No brainer #1 pick. Mobley: I think his floor is Nerlens Noel with offense. I think his ceiling is a player in the mold of KG. There are red flags with his body and a question of whether he wants to an offensive force. If KPJ is the real deal and if Martin's offense the last few weeks of the season is indicative of his play moving forward then Mobley can easily get by solely on what he already does well on offense. Kuminga: If everyone reached their full potential I think that Kuminga would be the 2nd best player in the draft. The Jaylen Brown comparisons are probably too optimistic but I dont see a way that he isnt successful as the roll man at the 4 and in transition. if he puts on another few pounds the guy is a mismatch at forward against anyone not named LeBron.
Wait, so based on this post, you're saying that you'd pick Cade, Mobley and Kuminga in the top 3, but if the Rockets had the fourth overall pick, you'd pass on Green and Suggs? Who would you take ahead of them? I just don't buy that take. I can get not being high on specific guys, but they're both 100% worthy of being top 3-5 picks in this draft.
I wish the Rockets either gets #1 or #4 pick. I don’t want them to overthink their decision. It’s either Cunningham or the leftover from Mobley, Suggs or Green. Either way, we will get a quality player that will help the Rockets.
Heck no. Sure Wiseman is young af... but you kind of know a bit that it will be a while till he is even all star caliber, and its hard to see him being #1 guy caliber, which is at least what you hope for, with the #1 and #2 picks. Add in the fact that the team that just drafted him, would be trying to trade him, that's not exactly a positive recommendation. "Hey, this Wiseman guy is great. We promise!! But would you give us that pick for him and a lower pick??? Please!!! It will work out for you, we swear.. He's really good, just not the 'perfect fit' for us, you know!! ... even though we drafted him over equally hyped guards last year, too!"
I would pick Green if I had the fourth pick. I might even pick him third over Kuminga though I really like Kuminga. I just don't think that Green represents great value at that pick. He is (arguably) the best prospect and would be my pick though. Like I have said, I see Zach Lavine when I look at Green and Lavine was the 13th pick in a draft that was viewed similar to this one at the time (when Wiggins and Parker were the new LeBron and Carmelo). Gilbert Arenas was a second round pick. I just do not personally value volume scorers as high as some. The fact that I would use that high of a pick on such a player is actually a compliment to Green in my mind.
Yes, everyone's can't miss is open for interpretation. I look to see how many Centers start at 215 pounds and the only guy I see is C Wood. I don't truly see Wood as starting center. If I did, it might explain why he only played 41 games of a 72 game season. Jarrett Allen is listed as 243 pounds (235 pounds while with the Texas Longhorns) is probably the Nicolas Claxton played 32 reg season games at 215 pounds), Nerlens Noel played 51 games in 16/17 with 76ers/Dallas. 17/18 (30 games Dallas) But then 77 games (in 18/19) S Adams helping him as he did most of the dirty work in OKC. 19/20 again in OKC 61 games (helped by Adams), 20/21 with Knicks (64 games) helped by Julius Randall. Ralph Sampson needed Olajuwon and even at that Sampson was injury prone. Rockets do not have a big player that can share the burden of doing the dirty work. I'm not sold on Mobley as you are.
I am totally sold on Cade. He is by far my favorite prospect generally and for the Rockets specifically. After him I do like Mobley and Kuminga quite a bit. I think that Mobley would be a more likely to play at the 4 for a year or so while he puts on an additional 10 to 15 pounds. I am expecting him to be up to around 220 by draft date (which would put him close to where Jaxson Hayes was BTW). I think at 7'/235 his weight would not be as much of an issue. I do like Charles Bassey a lot to play the muscle to Wood or Mobley's finesse at the 5. And I do the think the Rockets roster could handle 2 bigs from the draft (especially if Olynyk doesnt return).
Obviously we all got our preferred picks, but it seems there's going to be very little divide with whoever is available at our pick. If it's 1, i think it's clear Cade is the man. If we get 2 or another team gets 2, i don't see anyone passing Cade, so most of us will argue Green or Mobley. I'm sure everyone will be happy enough. If were in 3, were happy to have the left over of Green/Mobley. Of course if were #4, there's not much choice unless we think Kuminga or another jumps over Suggs. It'll be a slight bummer, but sure beats losing the pick altogether. I'm just hoping for the best next week's lottery because all this debate and analysis could be for nothing. I'm going to buy a bottle to celebrate or drown my sorrows. If it's the #4 pick, i'll just chug nyquill and wake up Wednesday and convince myself Suggs is the next Brandon Roy with knee cartilage.
I think you and I have different definitions of "volume scorer." To me, a volume scorer only generates so many points because he shoots so many shots, and he's generally an inefficient basketball player. Westbrook is a volume scorer. Jamal Crawford was a volume scorer. Jalen Green has potential to be a legitimate efficient scorer. Dude averaged 46/37/83 shooting splits at the G-League level with a 61.3% TS% as an 18-19 year old. Also, I don't think it's fair to say "Green could be the next Zach Lavine or Gilbert Arenas, and look where those guys were drafted, therefore he's a reach at 4." If those drafts could be done over again, Lavine and Arenas would have gone much higher. If the Rockets could trade all of their firsts this year to add Jokic right now, would you not do it because he was drafted 41st? And I'm not necessarily high or low on Green. I just think the guy is a top 5 pick in this draft for a reason, as are the other four players being discussed in this thread. If the Rockets end up with a top 4 pick and draft him, I'll be thrilled. If they end up getting one of the other guys, I will be, too. Cade would obviously be preferred, but if they get any of those guys, they should consider themselves extremely lucky to be drafting them.
