Holy Sh*t - Someone might be interested in trading for John Wall

Well I am saying that sitting him out for a year plus isn't a realistic solution, it just never happens not only in basketball but in other sports unless the player (like in the NFL) is willingly sitting out games. His agency isn't going to like that nor would he as he's still trying to prove he's an all-star guard.

Rockets would take that loss because they drafted a #1 pick and don't want his development hindered in any way by Wall's presence on the team.

Now, the Rockets could definitely make it clear to him that they won't play him much. Have him be a bench player, give him 20 mpg, and maybe try to tell him that this is role now and maybe he'd be so unhappy with it that he'd concede and agree to a buyout that works for cheap Tilman., i'm all for that plan too, although I don't think it would happen. Silas isn't going to sit Wall, mark my words on this, if Wall is on the team Silas will play him more minutes than either KPJ or Cade because this is what coaches do. They always always prefer veteran players over inexperienced ones.

 

Horfor went out because he's hurt, plantar fascitis is nothing to play with and I'm sure they 'milked' the injury but at the same time I'm sure he was more than happy to heal up. It's not the same situation. Wall is not just going to sit out for 2 seasons because we can't trade him or buy him out, this just never happens.

Also, you lose that player because that player had a tendency to be toxic and will likely cut into minutes that KPJ/Cade need to continue to grow their game. As for the value of the pick, maybe. We're talking about a Nets pick that may as well be a 2nd rounder.

Other than Wall becoming the ultimate team leader and professional there is no good ending to him being here, yes if we were to draft Cade I'd be more than happy to give up what will likely be a late first to cut bait and completely move on.

 

You don’t let it happen to superstars or even stars. Wall hasn’t been relevant since 3-4 years ago.

 

All of the players that are past their prime aren't relevant anymore. Carmelo wasn't and we were the 'bad guys' for doing it to him for like half a month or however long that lasted. I'm just saying there is a reason these players get moved off a team. Cut, released, bought out, traded, whatever.

Sitting Wall out for two seasons is just not an option that will play out. Rich Paul wouldn't go for it, Wall wouldn't, and I doubt the NBAPA would as well.

 

It does happen, players get sent home often if they are detrimental to the team. There is nothing they can do about it but maybe file a complain with the nbapa and then the team says its exploring a trade, either way he has to wait at home and can't be a detriment to the entire team. At the same time wall is 31, has an agent, knows thats not the look and with his contract its not an easy trade and he is just lowering his own value that after subpar performance and not playing for 2 years he is now wining and hurting the team culture.

But he literally has no leverage, if we send him home. He goes home.

The whole point of the harden trade was picks, giving up 25 percent of our return just to say good bye to wall when we can wait and tell him good bye next year or send him home and not hear from him makes 0 sense for me.

Every pick counts, we've hit clint capela so on, not to metnion the other value of picks is of assets. As mentioned above ,that might as well been a 2nd rounder is 25 percent of our return from 4 picks. we shouldn't deduce that and we can flip it and trade if we want. The point is to keep the assets. Last time we traded a first rounder to get rid of brandon knight, contract reasons, no basketball reasons, so many better things we can do to try to get better.

If we were to to draft cade, I'd see where WAll's mind is at. IF he realizes hes been through a lot and we're a young team and he doesn't fit our timeline, we'll try to trade him but the market is weak then he can help bring along the first pick who is just like him, a high expectation first rounder. If he says he wants to play and thats that, we tell him ok you can wait at home while we explore trades. If it doesnt happen the entire year, it doesn't happen the entire year. In fact Blake Griffin sat out too, similarly high paid overpaid over the hill star and after sitting for a while he agreed on a buyout giving up 13 million. In any case, we keep the pick. To take a shot(Tate-undrafted, KMJ-2nd rounder, current MVP- 2nd rounder, last years mvp-mid first) basically the draft is a crap shoot, you take those assets for trades or swing a shot on players like the above. Do not give them up when even Cade is not going to turn us into a winner as a rookie, its about surroudning him with teh right assets. And just like NEts got their big asset by trading picks, we should not write off any first rounders. when teams need to move, those come in handy as massive trade value and stone has shown an apititude on sleepers.

No reason to hurt our team and our future assets for wall's feelings. ITs a professional league, like Blake...he can sit has ass out or down

 

There hasn't been a case where a player sits out for an entire year, much less two. You're talking about cases where in January or something

a team says they plan to trade the player or work on a buyout...we're talking about an example that would sit Wall out for a year plus. That just doesn't happen. It doesn't matter his age, the NBAPA and his agent would make a big fuss about the Rockets sitting out a player that wants to play with no plans to get rid of him.

1 pick from 9 picks is not 25%, we have 9 other picks that are not our own picks, this is not counting swaps.

I think the growth of a #1 pick is worth more than some future pick that isn't even our own pick.

Blake sat down for a few weeks, it's not the same situation. If Wall plays with us until Feb and we decide okay, enough of this guy, then sit him out for the rest of the year. Fine, that's normal. We gave it a shot, it didn't work, and we are mutually parting ways with him in the offseason.

Blake sat out from Feb 14 - March 3rd, that's it. He played for Detroit for half of the year until trade season.

I just don't think people realize it's not as easy as "Hey, do things our way or you sit at home for the entire season. Get over it."

 

They can make a fuss with the NBPA, they just wont have much grounding. If hes willing to be a mentor and a good teammate, thats fine we can use him off the bench. If he is detrimental to a team, like any job, they have the right to say its not working out and unless you're willing to give up money then we just hve to wait for a trade. ITs not an ideal situation, but its way better than losing a first round pick. THose things are cash cows in trades as we saw they even got nets a james harden, why do that when we're not losing next year. WHen you are as bad as we are, you get every asset you can, giving up assets to make an aging overpaid vet happy makes 0 sense and 0 incentive for our rockets decision makers. I'd deal with the nbpa or whatever else, I won't lose a first round pick for him.

The growth of the no 1 pick is valuable, so whose to say we don't get an asset via frade for that first rounder you want to trade or another tate/ KMJ that helps him on the court to grow to get better? There are a lot of angles with that and the easy solution is send wall home deal with it unless he wants to be a professional which is possible too.

It is as easy as that, its here is your 40 million to go workout, heal do what you want You can be a pro and make your career longer if you serve as a good mentor and a hrad worker or you can go home and workout and do whatever the hell you want to do until 1) we find a trade that works for our team 2)you decide to give up 13 million or so and it gives us financial advantage to let you go while paying you the rest and you can go try to make up for it.

ITs a business, its always tough decisions. This is not a tough one imo. we're in collecting assets and build a foundation mode, not lose assets to lets little john wall run his heart freely business. We made it "uncomfortable with harden" Let him pout for months before we traded him and he is iconic, wall has 0 clout or anything after 3 years of nothing, if he doesn't know it. His agent does. IF he was tradeable, he would've been traded already.

 

I don't know how the NBPA would react to honestly this since it just hasn't happened.

I think the value of the trade is Silas having full control of his team and the ability to mold a rookie to run his ideal offense. That value to me is tremendous. It help Doncic out a lot and I hope the same for Cade.

Wall spent 2 seasons rehabbing, he doesn't want to just collect his money on the couch. Money that is guaranteed to him anyway. He wants to ball and prove he's an all-star guard still, he's made that very clear through the year.

Maybe he wouldn't mind a buyout, sure...but would Tilman, the notoriously cheap owner, agree to that?

His agent is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful agent in the NBA. You think his agent is going to ignore his complaints? It's a business to Rich Paul too and Rich Paul's business interest is showing that he fights for his clients not that he rolls over for teams and lets team erase entire years of his clients careers.

 

Yep, Rich is a killer. and he also knows this business is a killer. Even AD ended up sitting out a lot of the season, tehy are willing to get uncomfortable so should the teams, we did it to hard. To a guy who has no clout, o leverage in Wall? Its a no brainer.
Once again, I share your value in focusing on development I just beleive we can do it without giving up a pick. We own his contract, we can payhim to sit down if hes a detriment, and try to trade him, its a simple as that. I'd rather go deal with the nbpa then once again give up a first round pick. Those things are valuable, they come in handy in trades and as we've seen with paul, harden before him these you never know when a consolidation of role plyers even comes and we strike when the opportunity comes. Harden was got with no stars, as was Chris Paul. Nets tried for dear life to keep Allen,,bc the cost was another late first rounder even milwaulkee and thats what they ended up getting for him. IMO in that light trading Jarret Allen just to get rid of John Wall when we can send him home, keep him on the bench if hes unhappy we hasve ever right to sit at home. Hes got a contract, if he wants to dishonor it and be a detriment to the team, we ccan take it the nbpa or put pressure until he gets a buy out.

 

But again, the difference here is AD wanted to sit out. If it's mutual, it's fine. I just don't think there is any chance that Wall will want to sit out this year.

I'm not trying to say we should trade a bucket load of picks for him. Just one of our extra picks just so Silas can have full control of his team without a gloryhunting vet.

I just don't think it's worth it to piss off a super agent, an agent that has so much power that he practically built that Lakers super team with his connections. I also don't think we can afford another hit like that on our organization, not only is Tilman cheap but he'll also waste an entire year of your career if he feels like it. I'm not sure that's a good selling point, I know we are worried about becoming a team FAs avoid and that would be another reason for players to avoid us. At the end of the day though, players and agents of players have a ton of power in this league.

Wall is also one of Paul's biggest clients thanks to his huge contract. I just don't see a situation where doing this helps us in the long run. If it's all mutual, then cool. We can work out a trade or his release and everyone moves on happy, that's the ideal...but if we can't find a trading partner and we can't get a buyout then what?

We'll have to agree to disagree here, I think my stance is consistent as I don't hold that much value when it comes to late first picks. I hold a lot more value in team chemistry and stuff like that and I'd love for KPJ and Cade and Silas to figure things out without Wall on the team. If we get the #1 pick, that's what I prefer.

 

I mean if we can't find a trade partner, the easiest option is always still there. Just waive him. Straight up cut him from the team. Just eat the 90M it's not like anyone will sign here anyway. And again, I'd only do this if we get Cade, Green, or Suggs. Anyone else and Wall can suck all he wants.

 

I get he may not want to, but the point is it really doesn't matter what wall wants. If its harden or Davis, monumental forces in the nba. That makes sense. Wall gets paid the max and hasn't really contributed on the court for 3 years straight, hes not getting the same sympathy or clout. So it is a big difference that works in our favor imo.

Even one of our picks could be the difference if we had some package to move up, to trade elsewhere, or even another shot to go for someone in the draft and depending on sleepers the draft class quality, whose to say that you didn't just trade away clint capela, KMJ, Tate, draymon green, GObert, the list goes on and on just to get rid of John wall? The draft is not an exact science as in their are sleepers and surprises THROUGHOUT the draft. Then their worth in assets is whole nother reason not to part ways with assets for the same reason we wouldn't trade tate right now along with wall to get rid dof his contract, we need talent, we need assets.

We already pissed of Rich Paul. Did you hear his recent quote baout ANthoyn davis, he says teams that aren't willing to pay the tax aren't worth the stars time essentially, him and the rest of the league saw what we did with HArden and anyone business savvy saw through the headlines and homerism of tilman treating harden like his cash cow restaurant watering down everything around him. Rich Paul ain't bringing any of his 1A clients here and no stars are coming now with that rep. IF he has mid level talent, if rockets show him the money-its ab usiness- he'll come. Its as simple as that

If you don't hold value for late first round picks, disregarding the numerous examples of at least hitting talent there, then you also probably believe that half of the Harden trade is absolutely worthless? Tradeable for getting out of contracts?

i think losing a pick both to either trade or use(firs rounders are incredibly valuable come trade deadline, its more than what we got for Oladipo himself) is more harmful in the long run then pissing off John wall. No one in the league is comparing his treatment IF he acts up to harden or davis or anyoen whose contributed significantly to a franchise. He just got here, he barely plays even when he tries, and is inefficient, older, and getting max money to do all of tht. THe sympathy around the league and response won't be the same, no one is doing john wall wrong. He can sit there and just be a leader. I'd imagine we'd still start him over cade the first half of the season even if cade is not nba ready, cade can play 1,2,3. We can bring wall o the bench, we can send him home and say it doesn't fit. No is feeling bad for the guy getting 40 million for a vacation.

 

His worth isn't just his status on the court, it's about Rich Paul. He's one of Paul's main clients by virtue of his huge contract, Rich Paul is not just going to sit back and let one of his largest clients get bullied by his team, it's literally Paul's job to prevent that. His agency is only strong by reputation.

If the next big star is looking for an agent and it's between Rich Paul and another agency group you'll know what Paul's opponents will say? "You want that guy to represent you? He let the Rockets bully him to missing an entire year of play..." his reputation as an agent is everything to him. It is his business. He has to protect his players no matter how good or bad they are or he's failing them.

Now yes, we can waive him, I agree with that from @lakersuck2 , I hope Tilman would be willing to swallow his pride or whatever is goign on in his head and do that should we draft Cade and Wall becomes an issue...but I'm telling you, no matter what, he's not just going to sit out a year plus unless it is mutual.

You say he doesn't have the power to decide and even guys like LMA, Griffin, Melo, Drummond, etc etc...none of these guys just wasted away on the bench unless they wanted to because they were hurt and rehabbing an injury anyway like Horford.

 

Its kinda funny people want to do exactly what they have b****ed and complained about Tilman doing in blowing assets just to get off of contracts (Ryno->BK->Shumpert) .... Wall the player isn't really a problem , its Wall the contract that's difficult but there comes a point in time where its much less difficult .... people have no patience.

Throwing away assets to get Wall out the door a year early is a poor idea.

 

I get that, but Rich can only do what he can. Some of his clients play for hte minimum, some of his clients don't get the bag. Its all where it works out at. And if he has a client who fits our roster and we give the money, he won't go another way. The way we did harden and even bettter yet MDA, we are already having a reputation on the league where a superstar won't consider us bc the tax situation, he made tht clear. no 1A stars are sniffing us, not anytime soon. If his other clients who don't hasve leverage, hell be pragmatic just like Dan Gilbert, ring a bell? May have publicly insulted James significantly but they had a plan and so personal issues be damned, they still went back to cleveland. Its a business, the numbers will work. don't throw away assets that acn be very, very valuable. a first rounder is worth more than oladipo last deadline, it was worth jarret allen, each year something like that happens. you don't throw it away...especially not for John wall on a fully rebuild team that will probably be close to hte bottom o hte league next year too. Its not good buisness decision, everyone in the nba understands that.

We can heal rich pauls feelings, hes pragmatic as shown with dan gilbert. He was one of his main clients 4 years ago, now hes a mid level or less player, theres no doubt about that. Bullying him will barely make the headlines, like blake griffin like josh smith coincidentally with detroit. we can't get the thrown away first rounder back if throw it for nothing when we acctually have a tangible other option, sit him home. Their feeligns arent worth a first rounder, rich ain't bringing us any clients soon and rockets aren't in the market for a big name. When that time comes if we have the moeny and the minutes, he won't look us away if its best for his client although he already established before all this he wouldnt want his 1a talent to goto a team who is dodging the tax

 

I'd like that, too, but I think Wall is pretty untradeable at this point. Who in their right mind would take on that contract for what they are getting?

 

I expect him to still be here this time next year.

 

Not only that. Having Wall on the team at that age and contract doesn't make sense with no Harden or at least a contending team. Let's move him while we are rebuilding in hopes of being even worse. Young players are the future.

 

Al Horford at Center for the Rockets makes Sense. Maybe come off the bench and contribute.

Hopefully resign Kelly Olynek.

 

Trading Wall by attaching assets (e.g. draft picks) to him is short sighted and ignorant. Having him on this team is bad juju, sure, but this team is in no position to give away future draft picks or young talent.