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Majority Leader Joe Manchin

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Andre0087, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    Because at some point, Charlie Brown has to accept that Lucy is never going to let him kick the football and continually accepting her offer just makes him a chump. It doesn't matter if the football is Spalding or Wilson or even Nerf, Lucy isn't going letting it go.

    Same goes for the GOP - there are not 10 GOP Senators who will work with the Democrats on any voting rights bill. Sure the John Lewis Act may get Murkowski or Romney to publicly indicate support, but more than likely, both will pull that support when the actual vote occurs. And even if they don't, their votes won't be enough to clear the filibuster threshold.

    What Manchin's editorial has done is essentially take away any incentive for the GOP to negotiate. They know that as long as he plays this game, there is no risk of a more liberal bill or the possibility of the filibuster being changed or eliminated. So they can just say no to everything, and Manchin will continue to imply that it is the Democrats who can't compromise. The GOP couldn't ask for a better hand in this game.

    Furthermore, let's pretend there is a chance of the John Lewis Act passing. As has been stated elsewhere in the thread, the John Lewis Act doesn't come close to addressing the serious issues that have arisen with voting rights in the past 6 months. It's a band aid at best, and if the Democrats attempt to address the remaining issues with a subsequent bill, the GOP will respond 'We've already dealt with voting rights - it's time to move on." They did this with the stimulus payments and they'll do it with everything else. Manchin will repeat his usual routine of "seeking bipartisanship" and nothing will happen.

    Again, I'm not entirely ready to blame Manchin for the Democratic inertia, given the history of Sinema and the likelihood that there are other wimpy Democrats who think they can make it to reelection by walking in the middle of the road and/or doing nothing to offend anyone. But it would have been better for him to keep his statements vague and work behind the scenes instead of making all these announcements that devastate the Democrats negotiating power.
     
  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I think this is a bit of hyperbole, the Republicans that stood up are not dying off, they are middle aged.

    The way to keep Republicans out of office is to vote and make sure all of your friends vote and turn over state legislations.
     
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  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    So why does Manchin vote with Democrats over 90% of the time.

    The facts don't add up for you.
     
  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    What are you a freaking Manchin Only Fan?

    The guy is almost solely obstructing all legislation in a crucial time for finally having some improvement to our Democracy, and you want to seriously step in and be his number 1 cheerleader here? Seems like a weird hill to die on.

    You are missing the post prior where I said it actually took guts for Manchin to vote to impeach Trump. There are moments he has really stepped up, and took risks he should be applauded for. Right now though is one moment where history will not be kind to him knowing what is likely coming after the next few election cycles.

    I'm just realistic that Manchin represents West Virginia, and he knows it. Alot of his constituents hate liberalism, but they are reliant on SS, Medicare, and unions. So he's in an odd place, and he acts like it. However I think he took more guts to vote to impeach Trump then he is here on voting rights. If he's going to obstruct then he's solely responsible for creating an alternative that is ready to pass tomorrow.

    This is what the guy did with gun legislation too under Obama. He claimed that him and Pat Toomey were the only people who could get it done, and he failed miserably, and all the while Obama missed the ability to get anything passed because Manchin said his bill was the only one that he'd support, and the Republicans took him for a ride. If he does this again (which it seems obvious is the case) then he's either too stupid to see it, or he's part of the obstruction himself.

    Also I do believe Manchin is a chair of Third Way... which is a Koch Network interest group... so yeah
     
  5. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Manchin only fan?

    how do you figure that because I factually said he votes with with Democrats the vast majority of the time( 90% was not right).

    I don't want all Democrats voting in lockstep because parties tend to overreach when that happens.

    If you don't understand why he voted the way he did with gun control coming from WV then you don't understand the state he comes from and he was not the swing vote on that he among a number of Democratic senators.

    Manchin is not obstructing all legislation and he is certainly not an obstructionist, I have no idea why we have overstate things and can't debate things on the merit.

    So now Manchin is a Kotch stooge?

    This is the stuff I am talking about.

    And anybody that wants to find out what Thirdway is.

    https://www.thirdway.org/about
     
    #45 jiggyfly, Jun 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  6. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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  7. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    LOL. Joe Mitchin'
     
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  8. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    He's a Democrat Senator from a blood red state. To stay elected he blows Republicans. This isn't tough to figure out.
     
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  9. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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  10. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    If people were outraged they shouldn't have split ticket Joe with a repug senator.

    Susan Collins and that NC seat were there for the taking.

    Political media and actual voters are out of sync.

    Former sells nonsense that has no business making sense. The latter trying to make sense out of nonsense
     
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  11. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    That makes sense to me and the sooner the better. Like tomorrow. Get it passed before the Abbott calls a special session, which he will do.
     
  12. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Oh is that the key too it?

    Just vote huh.
     
  13. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    At this point h is one in the same holding up things.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Yeah if everybody votes all of the terminally broken systemic veto points that are literally beyond the control of the median voter all the way up to the President of the United States will magically go away.
     
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  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Legislation to investigate people who tried to murder the Vice President and turn the senate into an execution hall by QAnon psychopaths died in the Senate. Tell me how this makes a difference.

    If each one is doomed to fail, you might as well support the better law in any event.
     
  16. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    Democrats should've run candidates who didn't leave $15M unspent in a tight race or engage in sexts just before an election. Manchin is one of the most powerful people in Washington because he's a Democrat who can win in a state that Donald Trump carried by almost 40% and the Democrats fumbled winnable races in Maine and North Carolina.
     
  17. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    LOL at Machin's argument that supporting a bill not supported by Republican is anti-unity when he just did that recently with 2021 covid relief bill.
     
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  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    West Virginia is also a state that is prime for economic populism due to poverty in the state and leading industries like coal mining not creating the jobs that it used to. WV is poor. Very poor. The fact that Manchin can get away winning elections in that state while being a champion for median to large businesses rather than laborers shows how much more room he's leaving in the table in terms of potential support.

    Manchin isn't the type of senator who will try to convince his constituents of economic populism. He doesn't have the rheotoric ability or the patience because he isn't intellectually curious about economic populism because he is man brought up by comfortable means being handed capital by his parents and now has investments in industries in WV that hire low wage workers like hospitality. He wants to pay people as less as possible.

    He's a fossil of the old guard who is comfortable with the status quo because the status quo has allowed him to live a life of luxury never earning anything fully of his own merit besides winning elections.

    Race inequality rhetoric won't work in WV but economic inequity would I believe.

    Manchin's shtick is running his mouth about platitudes about tradition and "bipartisanship". That's all that comes out of the man's mouth. He's a useless human.
     
    #58 fchowd0311, Jun 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
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  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    LOL,, well yeah, that and also the fact that the Senate has a natural +5 Republican seat lean literally written into its structure.

    If only we won in Maine - we'd still be eventually ****ed because the system is ****ed.
     
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  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Thats why we know these hollow talking points are full of crap he doesn’t really believe. So if it’s about money and taxes he’s okay with partisan only bills. When it comes to rights of Americans that’s where he draws the line?... right.

    The fact is the only thing that is bipartisan is that elected officials on both sides want nothing to do with money exiting campaigns. Manchin is really just the most blatant Democrat here while every single Republican is blatant about this.

    This crippling of the Congress is exactly why facism and autocracy will almost certainly be coming here. It’s so obvious how broken our system is by dark money influencing so many legislators that don’t really do anything.

    The fact is they only passed the Covid bills because the dark money donors allowed it because it would stimulate consumer spending which helps them. Even the Republicans supported it for that reason even though none of them voted for it just because they wanted to try and hurt Biden politically.
     
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