Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

If that's true, then he is lazier and/or dumber than I thought.

 

Simmons can avoid taking Js all he wants, but he can't avoid FTs. Even if he never develops a 3-ball (or even a 15-18 footer), he will need to improve his FT shooting, not only because of nights like yesterday, but also because he doesn't drive with the authority he should because the chance of him ending up on the line is in the back of his mind.

And at 6'10" 240 with his athleticism/handle, there's absolutely no reason he shouldn't be driving with authority. Giannis and Zion punish defenses inside despite their questionable Js (but at least they take them on occasion).

All that said, I think he can be a top-3 player on a title team IF the other two stars are explosive scorers/shooters. His defensive versatility at his size changes games.

If we end up with Cade, I'll be happy we didn't trade for Simmons. If we end up with Mobley/Suggs/Green, it'll be a tossup, and if we don't get our pick, I'll regret it.

 

You are talking about Simmons in a vacuum or as a player.

Yes as a player Simmons does things that out weigh him not being able to shoot. But at 41M you need to be able to score. Maybe if Ben Simmons was like Kawi, Lebron and Pippen combined on defense he would be worth it, but he isnt. He hasnt even made a Lebronesque performance on DRose and locked up somebody the entire series.

Simmons is just way too limited to be making superstar money imo. Maybe the max is ok but def not super max, Philly is lucky their owner is willing to spend past lux tax.

 

Getting Simmons would be a bad move all around his contract would mean the Rox have zero chance to improve. Along with Wood and he'd prob make the team an 8th seed or low lotto but thats it. In 3 years these guys will be gone and Rox would have nothing to show for it.

I'd rather have the picks and MPJ regardless if we get our pick or not.

 

His defense is that he's a playmaker and his role is to set up his teammates with the best/right shot. Like, that sounds dandy but even the John Stocktons, Jason Kidds, Steve Nashes of the world still had to make shots when they're open.

IMO, Simmons is more afraid of missing and letting his team down than anything, hence the lack of eagerness to improve on his shot.

 

Nets package with different secondary trades (not Dipo) would've been the best result of these two choices.

Nets trade and then Dipo was the worst option.

 

In hindsight it would have been much easier to flip Levert for something. No regrets about Allen though, he would have just left in free agency because we weren't offering 100 MM

 

Yeah, that might be the mental block I referred to.

Simmons is very much like Draymond Green. If he's your best player, you aren't going anywhere. If he plays with a couple of great scorers, he makes the team much better.

 

you guys are obsessed with this what if trade scenario uh? Must be offseason when you keep on dissecting Simmon's game

 

agreed, i prefer the picks

 

Mind you THIS is the guy posters like D-Rock said we need to get for James Harden. Simmons is a athletic Chuck Hayes lol

 

Disagree about max salary meaning you have to score.

And Philly isn’t “lucky” their owner pays the tax, just about every championship contender pays the tax.....Our Houston Rockets were unlucky we had owners who decided not to.

Max money should mean high end impact. Simmons IS one of the 20-30 most impactful players in the league and most numbers would say in these playoffs he’s been top 15-20.

You can’t build a great team with him as your #1 scoring option. Your team probably needs to be AMAZING defensively if he is your 2nd scoring option. But as a 3rd scorer who is an elite level playmaker for others who also is routinely All NBA first team level defense who could be argued is currently the most versatile defensive player in the league. The overall impact is there and worth the money he makes in my opinion.

It shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone that when he is forced/asked to impact the game with his personal scoring that he comes up short. But that was never why he consistently shows up as one of the higher impact players in the league to begin with. Traditionally your highest paid guys are also your highest scorers, but more and more I think there is an understanding that guys can have elite level impact without being an elite scorer. It’s not easy to do, you pretty much have to be great at everything else to pull it off, but I think Simmons pretty much is that as a basketball player.

 

Not trading for Simmons looks better by the day

 

Everyone? Only 4 teams are paying the tax and 1 of them is GSW.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/tax/2021/


The way the NBA structure works means you only have space for 2 super maxs if you wanna have any depth, I mean look at Philly it is 3 max playsrs and the rest are vet mins or rookie deals. If Simmons is your other super max then the offensive burden your other dude has to carry is too immense. We have seen 1 man shows fail time and again 1 dude cant be the sole offensive engine the offense becomes too predictable.

Simmons' playmaking is great but at the same time play making is one of the more redundant skills in the NBA. NBA has lots of stars with playmaking and we have at least 1 team (Clippers) who found success even without a dedicated playmaker.

Not only that you dont want the ball in Simmons hands cuz he cant score. For example you have Booker and Simmons on one team who will have the ball? It is Booker cuz he is the one who can score. So Simmons' playmaking is a waste cux he cant shoot and you dont aant the ball in his hands you want him moving off the ball and contributing in other ways.

So that just leaves Simmons' rebounding and defense. Yeah ok they are pretty good but again like I said thise are role player skills. You dont oay a role player super max money. More importantly there are other players who also rebound and defend well but can still shoot like Giannis, AD, Harden or Kawhi. Simmons will always be half of those players but making the same money as them.

P.S. Do those stats show his impact when the opponent starts hack a shaq?

 

I think because shooting isn’t natural or easy for him, so he shies away from doing it. He had a poor work ethic in Australia, a really poor one in college and isn’t known as a terribly mature or hard worker now. Some people never learn adversity or how to handle it.

 

He is mentally and emotionally weak because he has never had to develop otherwise. He isn’t a good natural shooter so he doesn’t like to do it. He doesn’t like failing and would rather stick at what he is good at only. It is short sighted but some people don’t look long term.

 

I found it odd that the #1 player in the country at that time couldn't even get his college team into the NCAA tournament. Like, how many times has THAT happened in the past 20 years?

NBA players taken 1st in the draft who didn't play in the NCAA tournament (excluding high school and foreign players who didn't play in college):

2016: Ben Simmons
2017: Markelle Fultz

Like that's the entire list for the past 20 years.

 

Delusional?

 

haha "simmons and a big man" as if embiid is just some random big guy and not the best player in the nba basically on a per minute basis

 

Simmons plays well with Embiid off the floor. The minute Ben gets dealt, he'll blow up. Yes, he can handle the ball out top...get to the hoop and finish (unclogged lane will help him here), but needs to be able to play inside more...have some of the offense run through him from deeper in. Regarding his defense, I'd take him over anybody. Ben can guard 1-5 at an elite level. BS needs to go somewhere else where he can open up his game. This isn't a good fit for Philly or him.