Chinese Virologist post report claiming virus made in Wuhan lab

so China killed this virologist yet?

 

So three researchers went to a hospital before the pandemic breakout with CV-19 symptoms (or is that flu symptoms?). The hospital did not have CV-19 protocols setup, since it was before the pandemic breakout. Yet these three people did not start a CV-19 outbreak in that hospital.

What is the simplest explanation for this? During the height of the flu season, these three people caught the flu. Occam Razor.

 

Here is what Fauci actually said ...



To paraphrase, the most likely origin of the CV-19 is a natural occurrence from an environment of an animal reservoir that we have not yet identified. Other origin possibilities can not be ruled out. By being "not convinced", Fauci is admitting that he is not 100% convinced that CV-19 is a natural occurrence.

To paraphrase Fauci from the above video, the historical evidence (SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV, HIV, and virtually all of the flu pandemics) is that pandemics evolving naturally from an animal reservoir is extremely strong.

 

Dr. Fauci Emerges As An Unlikely Witness For Trump In The “China Flu” Case
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/05/...kely-witness-for-trump-in-the-china-flu-case/

excerpt:

The Chinese American Civil Rights Coalition seeks $22.9 million, or $1 for every Asian American and Pacific Islander living in the United States. It is far from clear that the coalition can claim all Asian Americans were injured — or claim the right to speak for all of them on the issue. There also are problems with establishing an injury directly related to Trump’s rhetoric, or with seeking damages on the basis of a type of “group libel” — an extremely difficult foundation for any lawsuit.

“Chinese virus” has been widely used by various experts and commentators, including in scientific journals. Indeed, two Chinese experts referred to this as the “Wuhan virus” until they were pressured to retract their column. It was the term used by many scientists in the early stages of the pandemic, and even by some liberals; HBO’s “Real Time” host Bill Maher defended the use of the term as consistent with past scientific practices.

While it is reviled by many as racially insensitive and inflammatory, the term’s use is heavily imbued with political meaning. The Supreme Court has long protected opinion under free speech rulings. In cases like New York Times v. Sullivan, the court sought to create “breathing space” by articulating a standard that now applies to both public officials and public figures.

Moreover, as with the Swalwell lawsuit, the Chinese American coalition makes an argument directly rejected by the Supreme Court in claiming emotional distress from political rhetoric or protests. In Snyder v. Phelps, the court ruled 8-1 in favor of the odious Westboro Baptist Church members who protested at military funerals. Chief Justice John Roberts held that “As a nation we have chosen a different course — to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate.” Thus, even offensive terms like “Kung flu” are, presumptively, protected forms of speech.

In many ways, Democrats will be fortunate if the coalition’s suit is dismissed on standing or injury grounds. Conversely, Trump should want this case to go forward to a full judgment and appeal. The biggest danger is that the lawsuit could force a ruling on underlying origins of the flu. The primary defense to defamation remains truth. Trump can argue that terms like “China virus” and “Wuhan virus” refer to the widely accepted origin of the outbreak. The use of such labels is common in science and politics; people still refer to the “London variant” and “South Africa variant” of COVID-19. Other viruses and diseases also have been associated with where they originated, like Zika or Ebola. While the “Spanish flu” may not have started in Spain, it is still the common label for that epidemic.

This lawsuit shows the impeccable timing of Trump critics in self-defeating litigation. After the filing, Dr. Fauci seemed to flip on the lab-release theory. During the Trump administration, Fauci was lionized by the media for dismissing the lab theory; in a May 2020 interview, he told National Geographic: “If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what’s out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species.”

The media and Democratic leaders went into full attack mode. The New York Times denounced figures like Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark,) for raising the “Fringe Theory of Coronavirus Origins,” while the Washington Post called it a “conspiracy theory that was already debunked” — or, as stated in The Daily Beast, a wingnut “conspiracy theory.” Post columnist Jennifer Rubin said anyone giving credence to the lab-origin theory was voicing the “GOP’s cultist mentality,” and denounced Cotton as being “an irrational conspiracy monger or he has contempt for voters (i.e. feeds claptrap to the people he considers rubes).”

Now, apparently, Fauci is “feeding claptrap” to “rubes,” too.

Asked if the virus’ origin presumptively was forged in nature, he said: “No, actually. I am not convinced about that. I think we should continue to investigate what went on in China until we continue to find out to the best of our ability what happened.”

Around the time of Fauci’s reversal, news reports surfaced of Chinese scientists at the Wuhan lab suffering COVID-like symptoms months before the outbreak, and even the possibility of hospitalizations of lab staff. Former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Robert Redfield has said publicly that he believes the virus escaped from the Chinese lab. Retired New York Times science editor Nicholas Wade has chastised his former colleagues for ignoring the obvious evidence supporting a lab theory as well as Chinese efforts to arrest scientists and destroy evidence that could establish the origin.

With this record, Trump could not ask for a more timely or flawed lawsuit. Indeed, he might call Fauci as his first witness in a trial virtually tailor-made for Trump.
​

more at the link

 

Either way you are wrong. The Wuhan lab was 100% engineering viruses. https://2017-2021.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/index.html. "The WIV has a published record of conducting “gain-of-function” research to engineer chimeric viruses."

 

You don't understand what you are talking about. Even with gain of function research, COVID 19 has a signature of being created by nature due to the evolutionary steps they can see in the genetic code that reflect natural selection vs engineering.

I know everyone hates China on here - and yes, China is no friend of ours and responsible for a lot of rotten things. But they did not engineer this virus.

Oh and thanks for apologizing for misconstruing my statements.

 

It's a frivolous lawsuit that will be dismissed. Not sure why it's even worth posting here

 

These articles are conflating leaked from a lab with man-made / engineered.

 

This is faulty reasoning. Scientists have only been working with viruses for several decades. Of course the vast majority of all pandemics evolved naturally. Here's another fact. 75% of all SARS outbreaks were lab leaks. And notice how he said virtually all flu pandemics are natural, because the 1977 Russian flu pandemic might have been a lab leak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Russian_flu

 

So you solved the riddle. The debate is over. You should write a paper in a scientific journal since you have proven that Covid-19 came from nature where ever other reasonable scientist in the world has said that it can't be determined whether it came from a lab or nature.

 

surely this deserves its own "offensive and racist cartoon" thread

 

Why do I need to write a paper when the research is already out there for anyone, including yourself, to look at and draw the only logical conclusion that I just stated????

 

Point me to this research that definitively states the virus came from nature. Clearly its useless even discussing this with you if you are this out of touch with the facts. If this is the case there would be no debate among scientist about its origin.

 

Fauci has become an interesting caricature for people to hate on or otherwise pan some hero. He is and has been a government scientist working his way up the ladder on public research. These guys are dogmatic, not trailblazers, they read evidence and history and suggest what they know until the scientific method adds more data and changes their opinon

Its pretty dry.bringing them into a sensationalist media setting was ripe for people looking for news, he never delivered. People refuse to understand science is fluid, not dogmatic. More data is able to be tested often with new technology or just more time and investigation, that changes your hypothesis especially for somtething new. ITs not ground breaking, I get he shouldn't be making final decisions and he doesn't, he is just a part of the conversation.

These same people ignore trump literally talking up and down the vaccine, and not only had final decisions on anything, but also appointed his son-in-law, again, to run the entire show and hand billions and millions of public resources on their whim. Sadly like Cuomo, he failed, he lied, he tried to be a hero when he could and we got the typical bs of politicians politicing and their fervent blind tribal supporters somehow still making excuses for why they didn't do their job right.

"Donald j Trump exact quotes on China Virus before it was no longer politically convenient, no fake news filter, his own words and quotes:

"“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”"
-Jan. 24, Twitter:



"Feb. 10, Fox Business interview:

"I think China is very, you know, professionally run in the sense that they have everything under control," Trump said. "I really believe they are going to have it under control fairly soon. You know in April, supposedly, it dies with the hotter weather. And that's a beautiful date to look forward to. But China I can tell you is working very hard.""

Feb. 27, Coronavirus Task Force press conference:

“I spoke with President Xi. We had a great talk. He’s working very hard, I have to say. He’s working very, very hard. And if you can count on the reports coming out of China, that spread has gone down quite a bit. The infection seems to have gone down over the last two days. As opposed to getting larger, it’s actually gotten smaller.”


Now how trump talks to someone he respects : ""Bob Woodward is somebody that I respect, just from hearing the name for many, many years. Not knowing too much about his work, not caring about his work," Trump said of the celebrated journalist of Watergate fame who has been the subject of an Academy Award-winning movie. "But I thought it would be interesting to talk to him for a period of, you know, calls"
"

Only the Obama WH can get away with attacking Bob Woodward.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 1, 2013

"
FEB. 7

“You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed. And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flus.” — Trump phone interview with Woodward.

To the public:
March 9:

"So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year," the president tweeted shortly before 11 am. "Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!"

also same guy:

"

March 31:

By the last day in March, the president had changed his tune. "A lot of people have said, 'Ride it out. Don't do anything, just ride it out and think of it as the flu.' But it's not the flu. It's vicious," Trump declared at a White House Coronavirus Task Force Briefing. "This is not the flu," added Trump, definitively.

Same guy:
FEB. 26

“The 15 (case count in the U.S.) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. ... This is a flu. This is like a flu.” — During White House coronavirus task force briefing.

 

You are conflating pandemic origins and outbreaks. But carry on.

 

It's posted in this thread - but because one of its 7 authors says they aren't sure, people have dismissed it which shouldn't be the case.

Look, it's a novel coronavirus, meaning that the virus hasn't been seen or studied before - it's based on a virus in bats that typically would be harmless. If you were to manufacture a virus (which humankind has never created a virulent strain of any viral disease in its history by the way), you would start from a known studied virus as a backbone and modify from there. That is not the case here. That's how they know.

 

I haven't had much chance to follow the news as closely the past week but my opinion is still unchanged. There is certainly a possibility that COVID-19 was accidentally leaked from the Wuhan Virology lab and that it may have been a virus under study including gain of function study. I'm not seeing any more evidence though that points to it being deliberately engineered as a bio weapon and especially as a bio weapon meant to attack the US.

Biden or Fauci saying this is a possibility doesn't change my opinion of the evidence that I've seen so far. I agree though it is something that should be investigated and have no problem with them exerting diplomatic pressure on the PRC. I have my doubts though whether the PRC will come forward with anything new.

Regarding if this is some vindication for Trump and his use of terms like "Chinese Virus" or "Kung Flu" I don't see anything like that. Even if the CCP did deliberately engineer this they don't represent all Chinese and certainly not all Asians and especially Asian Americans. It's buying into CCP rhetoric that the "People's Republic of China" = all Chinese. Yet we've seen many people of Chinese ethnicity and even other Asians who aren't ethnically Chinese still get blamed and even assaulted because of the "Chinese Virus".

I will also further remind people that Trump praised Xi Jinping for his handling of the disease too even when it was already well known that this was very contagious disease that was spreading around the World.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736
15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe
The president has lambasted the WHO for accepting Beijing’s assurances about the outbreak, but he repeated them, as well.
More at link.

If anything the latest news is a reminder of how reckless and inflammatory Trump's rhetoric was and how chaotic and contradictory his administration was on COVID-19.