1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

What will it take to make you seriously consider an EV?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by jiggyfly, Mar 31, 2021.

Page 9 of 169
  1. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,752
    Likes Received:
    17,668
    #161 cheke64, May 24, 2021
  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    I agree but when Ev's go mainstream they will be picked like every other car, especially when you have variety.
     
    #162 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    Other manufactures are already scaling up and they are already slipping BEV's into the ICE lineups, just look at VW, BMW and Renault even Mini has an EV and Korea and Japan will bring the same efficiency to the EV. You think Tesla can stave of all that?

    The manufacturers have had no issues getting batteries and Teslas battery manufacturing is partnered with Panasonic and CATL who also sells to other car companies

    "CATL operates out of China, which is the second biggest international market for EVs (the 1.3 million EVs sold in China in 2020 represented 41 per cent of global EV sales), only just behind Europe (42 per cent of the global EV market).

    The reason why CATL takes out the top spot is likely due to the fact that it has the biggest number of relationships with car manufacturers, including EV giant Tesla, BMW, Great Wall, Honda, Hyundai and Volkswagen.

    If you’ve ever wondered “Who makes Tesla batteries?”, the answer is chiefly Panasonic, although CATL are a key Tesla car battery manufacturer, due to the fact the two companies have agreed to produce lithium-ion batteries together at Tesla’s second “battery megafactory” at Giga Shanghai.

    Batteries that last longer and can deal with more wear and tear are the golden goose in the EV battery manufacturing game, and CATL may very well maintain its number one position for years to come once it rolls out a new “million mile” battery soon, which should cost less than $US100 in terms of kWh and can handle decades of heavy use."

    Where are you getting that Tesla dominates the global supply?
     
    #163 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  4. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    I don't see what investing in Tesla has do with anything being said here.

    But good that you admit you are very biased and have skin in the game.
     
    #164 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,092
    Likes Received:
    8,537
    Prototyping is easy. Low volume is the first hurdle. Nobody disputes this. There is not a BEV manufacture out there that is mass producing. Tesla is the closest and even they are struggling. There are multiple lines of vehicles out there (including Tesla) that are forced to halt production due to supply chain management issues. COVID made the problem worse, however Musk has repeatedly commented on this issue for the last few years. The tech in ALL vehicles have skyrocketed in the last few years and its not slowing down.

    As these vehicles become more tech packed, managing the supply chain will be the first hurdle. BEV's are a complete different animal than ICE. The on-road attrition is going to be much lower due to better build quality, less moving parts (no transmissions and engines) and more safety features (less accidents removing the vehicle from the road). Currently vehicles last 8-11 years on average, but soon we will see 15-20 years on average. Manufactures who are producing disposable vehicles (ie: American) will have serious brand imagines, much like Kia and Hyundai did years ago.

    FSD is going to make manual driving obsolete. Its imperative all manufactures focus towards upgrade capability, both software and hardware.
     
    #165 Space Ghost, May 25, 2021
  6. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    Tesla has a joint venture with Panasonic in Nevada that makes the 2170 cells with a proprietary chemistry that was developed by Tesla. This is why while Panasonic also makes batteries for other carmakers, the range and efficiency of Teslas are always better.

    Tesla does use CATL as a supplier in China, they use a iron phosphate chemistry which results in lesser performance and range, but deemed it acceptable for the Chinese market.

    Tesla is currently in development of their own 4680 battery cell and will bring the entire process in house next year cutting costs by half.

    The reason why other manufacturers haven’t had any issues with battery supply is because none make EVs at scale. Tesla is the only one pushing the envelope by supplying batteries through a joint venture, multiple suppliers and still need to make their own batteries on top of everything. Legacy carmakers are dragging their feet so that their EV lines don’t cannibalize their profitable ICE lines.
     
    #166 CXbby, May 25, 2021
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    What? that makes zero sense they are getting batteries from the same manufacturer as Tesla and VW Kia and renault are all making EV's at scale.

    CATL sells the same batteries they make for Tesla to everybody so does Panasonic.

    VW sold over 200'000 EV's in 20/20 thats tripling sales in 3 years and they have 3 new EV's coming out this year at more diversified prices than Tesla. With europe pushing ev's sub compacts and compacts will be the big thing and by the time Tesla does one the european and asian market will be dominated by that subset of EV car.

    Legacy carmakers are doing anything but dragging their feet most of these companies are saying the will be mostly electric 10 years out.

    I have no idea where you got that from.

    https://mashable.com/article/traditional-carmakers-going-all-electric-vehicles/
     
    #167 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  8. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    Your are arguing with someone who has extensively researched this field for years and have been very right from very early with the pocketbook to prove it.

    So now if you are right that means you are biased? I sold out of my tsla earlier in the year so no skin in the game.
     
    #168 CXbby, May 25, 2021
  9. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    What does that matter if I gave you correct facts?

    I don't care how long you have been researching this field it gives me pause to believe you because you have been wrong about what other car companies are doing and how they are sourcing batteries.

    I mean you actually said other car companies are dragging their feet when that is the furthest thing from the truth.

    I mean Ford is creating a freakin EV F150 that alone shows you how serious they are.

    Did you not read the link some companies are trying to go all EV by 2025.

    I have no idea why you think what you made from Tesla has any bearing on what other car manufacturers are doing in the future.
     
    #169 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
  10. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    Panasonic makes a proprietary chemistry in Nevada for Tesla in the wholly owned Tesla factory. They sell different cells made in Japan to others. Don’t talk about things you don’t know about.

    CATL sells Tesla the same cells as they do others, it’s a iron phosphate cells that has lesser performance and range that only cheap Chinese consumers accept.

    I’ve said multiple times in this thread that VW is a legit player in EV. But that’s about it, if you are listening to the other companies then you would think they have been two years away from two years away for years.

    You sounds like someone that knew nothing about this industry for the last 10 years and just started reading marketing material from legacy auto yesterday.
     
    #170 CXbby, May 25, 2021
  11. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    So far you have linked to a site with 2018 data and called it 2020, didn’t know Panasonic produces proprietary cells for Tesla and have read off a bunch of fluffy marketing jargon that legacy have been spewing for years with little to show for which you would have known if you followed this industry the last 10 years. What facts?
     
    #171 CXbby, May 25, 2021
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    I have linked to several sites its telling that you ignored those.

    It does not matter if the produce proprietary cells for Tesla do you think the other batteries are garbage?

    I gave you the raw data for VW as a whole, Legacy manufacturers have already eclipsed Tesla Globally as a whole.

    VW tripled scale in the last 3 years .

    All of those are facts.

    You lose all credibility when you say they have little to show for it, thanks for letting us all know you don't really want to have legitimate discussion and just hate that everyone does not worship Tesla.

    Ford has an all electric F150 coming out yet they have little to show for it?

    LOL.
     
    #172 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
     
    #173 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
  14. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    For the third time, I’ve already said that vw is legit, so stop projecting whatever biases you have onto me. VW is also growing from a small base however, Tesla is going to grow 100% this year and they are already the biggest out there, the lead is widening as they build out manufacturing sites on all continents.

    F150 lightening is going to retail for $50-60k and god knows how much dealer mark up. The $40k one is a stripped down commercial version. Let’s see how many they sell in the end, if we have learned anything from the past, people are not going to want to pay extra for an EV for what they can already have in a ICE.
     
    #174 CXbby, May 25, 2021
  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4411931-tesla-is-losing-market-share-in-every-major-car-market

    That is just not true they are losing market share and once again shows you making **** up to fit a narrative.

    This is what is actually happening.

    Tesla’s Chinese demand issues have only intensified thanks to accelerating competition from a host of domestic rivals. While the Tesla Model 3 was the best selling EV in China last year, domestic competitors have been closing the gap, threatening Tesla's market leadership. In January, Tesla managed to sell just 15,484 vehicles, despite the debut of the much ballyhooed MIC Model Y. That is a marked drop from December and November, which saw 23,804 sales and 21,604 sales, respectively.

    Softer than expected sales have translated to diminishing EV market share. In January, 158,000 EVs were sold in China. Tesla’s 15,484 sales mark a continuation of the downward trend that began in June last year. Since then, Tesla’s share of monthly EV sales has declined from nearly 20% to less than 10% in January.

    Europe: Maturing EV Market With Maturing Tastes
    The situation is even worse for Tesla in Europe. As the world’s most mature EV market, Europe has long been a ready market for Tesla’s vehicles. But competition has at last begun to bite. In 2019, Tesla sold 109,000 vehicles in Europe, easily topping the region’s EV sales charts and claiming a healthy 31% of the region’s plug-in vehicle market share.

    2020 was not so kind to Tesla, despite a considerable expansion of total EV sales in Europe during the year. Despite the surging EV market, Tesla managed to sell just 98,000 cars in the region all year. Nearly 1.4 million plug-in passenger cars were sold in Europe in 2020, a 137% jump from the year prior. Meanwhile, Tesla’s sales were down more than 10% year-over-year. As a result, Tesla fell to third place in the European EV market in 2020, coming in behind Volkswagen AG (OTCPK:OTCPK:VLKAF) and the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance.

    Source: Schmidt Automotive Group

    2021 has started off poorly for Tesla in Europe, thanks in no small part to its having no manufacturing capacity on the continent as yet, which makes it reliant on shipping from the United States or China. Thus, January tends to be a bad month for Tesla in Europe. Even so, January 2021 was worse than usual, seeing just 1,619 sales for the month, a visible drop from the 1,977 it managed in January 2020. Tesla’s weak January showing gave it a meager 3.5% of EV market share, which was only good enough for eighth place. Among all plug-in vehicles, Tesla failed to crack the Top 20, according to Inside EVs.

    Source: @fly4dat

    Tesla’s domestic troubles are poised to worsen in 2021. In a March 2nd investor update, Morgan Stanley reported that Tesla’s share of US EV sales in February 2021 came out to 69%, down significantly from the 81% it boasted during the same month last year. There was one big reason for this decline, according to Morgan Stanley: “The Ford Mustang Mach-E accounted for nearly 100% of the share loss.” Ford’s electric Mustang has won the praise of numerous leading automotive publications, and its strong initial sales numbers suggest that Ford may have been too conservative in setting initial annual production at 50,000 units per year.


    The success of the Mach-E is an obvious red flag for Tesla. With myriad other EVs entering the US market this year, including the acclaimed Volkswagen ID.4, Tesla will face a tougher market environment at home than ever before.

    So that's 3 different regions where Teslas market share has dropped.

    Tell us again how Tesla is growing 100%

    You might want to do some more research.

    http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/05/2021-q1-sales-by-oem.html

    https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-losing-electric-car-lead-ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-2021-3

     
    #175 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
  16. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    say no more, you are sourcing from fly4dat who’s part of Twitter shortseller cult TSLAQ who have lost billions betting against Tesla. I can’t take you seriously at all anymore.

    Tesla had record sales in the first quarter and grew deliveries by 109%.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/503794/tesla-2021q1-final-deliveries-outlook/amp/

    That’s the actual facts. They are on pace for record deliveries again this quarter according to my sources(not broke shortsellers), and for the year they will come close to 1m deliveries which will be 100% year over year growth.

    Tesla is the dominant player in China, that’s pure fud you are linking to. They shutdown the model Y line for two weeks for upgrades which led to a small dip one month, will be another record for the quarter.

    It is true that their market share declined last year in Europe as VW has scaled up (i say for the fourth time they are legit). Tesla gets charged 20% import tax in Europe and do not qualify for some of the subsidies that countries give out to local manufacturers, so it is an uphill battle. However by the end of this year Tesla Berlin factory will be up and running which means local sourcing, lower cost/price, and level playing field in terms of subsidies. Their market share will rise sharply with the opening of Berlin.

    Tesla is losing market share in US to the Ford Mach e... lol what kind of joke is this?
     
    #176 CXbby, May 25, 2021
  17. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    Thought you were just some ignorant consumer interested in EV, but once you start sourcing from TSLAQ shortseller morons that really exposes your agenda. The “facts” you are spewing is bs fud that Tesla shareholders have been used to the media and shortsellers parroting for years. At first we had to fight the disinformation when Tesla was on the brink, but nowadays we don’t have time for this bs after laughing all the way to the bank. If you have some more “facts” to come up with your broke ass shortseller circle jerk friends I’m sorry but someone else can refute you as I enjoy the beach front view.
     
    #177 CXbby, May 25, 2021
  18. CXbby

    CXbby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    11,967
    Wait. JiggyFLY... are you actually fly4dat? o_O

    That’s impressive that TSLAQ scum’s reach has infected even the far corners of the internet here at a rockets forum.
     
    #178 CXbby, May 25, 2021
  19. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    I qouted a hell of a lot more than that one thing, thanks for letting me know you are delusional when it comes to Tesla and will ignore anything that does not say Tesla is the king.
     
    #179 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
  20. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    Wow this news has really shook you up 2 random post crying fake news.

    My job is done here.
     
    #180 jiggyfly, May 25, 2021
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 9 of 169

Share This Page