Body Cam Video released in March shooting of Chicago-area 13-year-old

None of those are false statements and I never called you out of your name.

Lets just go with one.

The cop obviously comes to a stop when he is dropping the gun but for some reason you think thats false.

I see you are to caught up in your feelings to see what's obvious.

At least you stopped with that split second bullshit.

Take a chill pill and calm your ass down.

 

all of them are.

again, you are the one who started up with me on all this. in your first post to me in this thread you were dropping f*** bombs so stop trying to play victim here.

lol. youre being dishonest here and only mentioning the first part of what i quoted. here is the full quote that you said..."The cops comes to a stop while he is throwing the gun away and it's clear he has his hands up before he turned around."

again, that is a lie. he did not have his hands up before he turned around.

and so what if the cop comes to a stop when he is dropping the gun and turning around? that doesnt change what we can all see on the video with our own eyes and it doesnt change the fact that you have made at least a dozen statements in this thread that are demonstrably false.

the only one here getting their "feelings" involved is you. im trying to deal in facts and things that we can clearly see with our own eyes. youre straight up lying about what is on video.

no i havent. it was a split second decision. its so odd that you are hung up on those two words.

ive been calm...ive calmly pointed out that youre being ridiculous and ive calmly pointed out that you are lying about whats on the video. youve been chasing me around this thread, cursing at me and arguing with me over things that are not even true. and you keep getting upset that i use the phrase "split second" to describe what went down. i think youre the one who needs to "take a chill pill and calm your ass down".

 

From the videos I'm seeing is that he appears to drop the gun, turnaround as he's lifting his arms and then is shot. It does appear to me that the still of his arms up is practically simultaneous with when the firearm is discharged.

Him turning around lifting his arms and getting shot appears to happen in less than a second.

The one area I can see that would say it is unjustifiable is that you can see him slowing down and throwing the gun away in the church surveillance footage. There is a good argument that him slowing down and is an indicator that he's not going to shoot but from the LEO standpoint I'm not sure that could be determined.

I agree that the LEO's orders could've been better too. He could've told him to lie down and show his hands which would've cleared up any confusion about Toledo's intentions when he's turning.

As I said this to me is very difficult and not clear cut given that Toledo was actually armed and shots had been reported. From the LEO's camera it's not clear at all that Toledo is dropping his weapon and it seems very likely that the LEO believes Toledo is turning to fire and not surrender.

 

In this case the future protocol should be hands up and don’t turn around or on your knees or lay down. Even if the kid was s criminal, life sentences or death penalty should be tried and juried. I could see the split second bad impulse by the cop, I could seethe tragedy of a 13 year old trying to give up and getting a death sentence.

Maxine Walters is an embarrassment, I’m fine with calling out trumps self serving, trump first inciting anything to protect himself an calling out how unbecoming it is of a president, maybe not of a king or dictator, but a public servant leader that all these people are called to do which has been lost, but then you also have to call out her disgraceful insightful remarks. We have the right to protest in our constitution, use it loud and proud, not whatever the hell she’s doing to get cheers or a name

 

I agree with all of this.

The officer never lost site of the suspect and stopped the same time he did, he gave a command and shot while he was complying.

I can see what the officer is thinking but it would seem to me if he was worried that he still had a gun and was turning to fire he would have shot him sooner, There is 3 seconds that past when they both stop and before he was shot, I am not saying that's a good amount of time but its not a split second decision, makes me wonder if he did not discharge the gun accidentally because if he thought he was turning to fire it seems he would have shot him before he turned.

I understand why he shot but the entire interaction once they stopped seems a little strange.

 

The fact that you keep claiming i am being ridicules and I am lying shows you are emotional.

None of what posted was ridicules or a lie its how I am interpreting the things I saw,we have been replying to each other but you think i am chasing you down.

Wut?

It seems you are just not mature enough to handle a tense discussion so I will take that into account in the future when dealing with you.

Good day sir!

 

I haven't heard anything about an accidental discharge but it's possible. I'm not a gun guy but I've shot enough to know that you're not supposed to have your finger inside the trigger guard until you're actually going to shoot and certainly not while running.

As I said from what I've seen so far I don't feel certain either way whether this was justified or not.

 

Why would he shoot him when he was facing away and stopped. That makes no sense. He shot him because he saw Toledo had a gun in his hand, then Toledo quickly turned around while raising his right hand, obviously causing the officer to think Toledo was about to shoot. The officer then shoots. When he is stopped and facing away, he was no more a threat than when he was running. At 2:38:39 Toledo still has the gun in his hand, visible on the body worn camera. At 2:38:40, the officer shoots him. In between, he tosses the gun and turns around. That is where it is, quite literally, a split second decision. I don't think you are taking reaction time into account. Average reaction time to a visual stimulus is .25 seconds. So Toledo has the gun, his hand goes behind his body (to toss the gun behind the fence, but the officer cannot see that) he starts to turn to face the officer, the officer decides to shoot him, pulls the trigger, the gun goes off, while that is happening, Toledo is still moving, raising his hands.

 

Police received a 911 call at 4:35 p.m. about an attempted stabbing on the 3100 block of Legion Lane. The caller reported a female was trying to stab them, then the caller hung up.

Officers responded to the scene and at 4:45 p.m. an officer-involved shooting was reported.

Columbus Fire medics were cleared to come into the scene at 4:46 p.m., police said. The wounded person was transported in critical condition to Mount Carmel East hospital, where they were pronounced dead at 5:21 p.m., police said.
Dispatch

Not guilty. Give that officer a medal.

 

Good question so why did it take him turning around to shoot him?

He never pointed anything at him so why did he shoot him?

If he had seen the gun why did he continue closing the gap when he stopped?

If he saw the gun him stopping could just as easily been seen as threatening.

Those numbers are straight up wrong if you watch the second video its at least 3 seconds when he stops to toss the gun and then turns around.

He shot him when he was fully turned not turning around and you leave out the fact after the officer gave the command which he complied with.

So he felt safe enough to close the distance and then give a command but him turning while obeying his commands made him now a threat?

Look I am willing to discuss this but I am not gonna continue when you just make stuff up like that time, how do you come to a stop toss the gun and then turn around in 1 second, these were all separate actions not a continuous one.

Like I have said before I am not saying the cop did this on purpose or necessarily recklessly but this narrative about him having a gun does not explain everything away.

Simple question if saw the gun before he tossed it how did he not see him without it after getting closer?

 

Now it's been about 30 years since I've taken 1st grade math, but I'm pretty sure it takes 1 second to get from 39 seconds with gun in his hand to 40 seconds with hands up.

 

He sees him holding the gun pointed down, facing away from him. He sees the hand with the gun go out of sight behind his body. He sees him turning to his left, which will bring the hand that he last saw holding a gun into a position to shoot him. That is why.

He made the decision to shoot before he could point anything.

He is chasing him to detain him. Why wouldn't he continue closing the gap?

It could have, I guess. I don't know why stopping is more threatening than running.

I posted screen shots. I don't know what you are seeing in the long shot, but you can clearly see he has the gun one second before he is shot.

You are leaving out reaction time.

Yes. Turning can be turning to fire. You generally don't stop running and then shoot backwards over your shoulder.

The screenshots speak for themselves. Watch the bodycam at 1/4 speed. Pause and unpause to see it as close to frame by frame as possible if you want. That is what I did.

As in all cases, it is the totality of the circumstances.

Because Toledo's body is between his right hand and the officer when he tosses the gun. By the time his empty hand becomes visible again, it is less than .3 seconds before he is shot.

 

Sorry for another grunch, but these threads take effort to seriously catch up. This one reminds a lot of the Ryan Whitaker killing, where the cop is acting in a split second, thinking he's in danger and thinking he's in a dangerous situation. The difference seems to be this kid was hanging out with a 21-year-old shooting guns in the street (wtf?) and Whitaker was playing video games loudly when his neighbor called in a fake assault complaint for the noise.

Forgetting about the preceding crime or lack of crime, there really should be national clarity on what actions anyone dealing with a cop can do without getting shot. I'm talking YouTube videos available for every situation possible. Sucky tragic situation.

 

Wow great shot and reaction under circumstances, girl in pink was so close in proximity, I would not have dared pull the trigger.

 

Sweet Jaysus.

America can print all the money it wants but can't give lost or forgotten children the time of day to build back up.

Are guns and mental illness really the problem in this case?

I don't think there's any amount of money that would make me run through that alley at 3am. I feel bad for everyone involved. I hope that kid rests in peace.

I don't know what justice is in that little corner of our backyard.

 

These dummies who post (and fall for) these highly edited and propagandized stories really do need to learn to wait for facts to come out.

 

Because it was dark, and cops are a little trigger happy. He probably didn't mean to do it. It's just instincts.

 

Is 'It's just instincts' the new GOP by-phrase to explain police brutality?

 

lol. no it doesnt.

i posted a dozen examples of you lying. again, its all on video. you keep making things up that go against what we can see with our own eyes.

ah, the good ol' kellyanne conway defense - "im using alternate facts". or are you going rudy g on us? "truth isnt truth".

again, youre the one who started up with me here and in your first post towards me you were dropping f***bombs.

it seems to me that you are a liar. also, it seems to me that english is not your first language as evidenced by your atrocious spelling throughout this thread.

so you think this is a "tense discussion" - so you admit that you are the one being "emotional" then?

 

So how does he toss the gun pause and then turn around in 1 sec?

Why are those time stamps in different places?

When you watch the actual video it's obvious these stilla are not 1 sec apart.

The gun was found behind the fence how did it get there if you think these too pics are right in sequence?