I'm not sure how much you know about the black community in Minneapolis. Did you know that in North Minneapolis which is a mostly black neighborhood where some of the worst damage this summer happened there were protests against defunding the police? That there were many Black leaders who didn't agree with how the Minneapolis City Council was driving this process. Frankly I find it patronizing for someone who doesn't live in the city to be telling someone who does that he's only focusing on publicized incidents. Your argument appears to be far more a generalization rather than the particulars of what's happening in this city. Sadly you're not alone in this and why this city is being turned into a national battleground. https://www.startribune.com/some-mi...y-council-s-moves-to-defund-police/571594012/ Some Minneapolis Black leaders speak out against City Council's moves to defund police While the movement to defund the police has been driven by Black activists, others say that city politicians rushed the process and failed to include a police chief who has the backing of many Black residents. By Maya Rao Star Tribune JULY 2, 2020 — 4:57AM These are a handful of the words that some local African American leaders are using to rebuke the Minneapolis City Council’s moves toward dismantling the Police Department, even as they demand an overhaul of law enforcement. While the movement to defund the police has been driven by Black activists, others say that city politicians rushed the process and failed to include a police chief who has the backing of many Black residents. “They have shown a complete disregard for the voices and perspectives of many members of the African American community,” said Nekima Levy Armstrong, a civil rights attorney and former president of the Minneapolis chapter of the NAACP. “We have not been consulted as the city makes its decisions, even though our community is the one most heavily impacted by both police violence and community violence.” A month after George Floyd died under the knee of a police officer, the City Council unanimously voted Friday to revise the city charter to permit the dismantling of the Police Department, the first step toward putting the matter to voters on the November ballot. The ordinance, which the Charter Commission discussed during a meeting Wednesday, would abolish the city’s current law enforcement structure in favor of a Department of Community Safety and Violence Prevention. It also raises questions about the future of Medaria Arradondo, the city’s first Black police chief. The measure doesn’t preclude a chief with a traditional policing background, but it requires the head of the new agency to have “non-law enforcement experience in community safety services, including but not limited to public health and/or restorative justice approaches.” Arradondo joined the department as a patrol officer in 1989 in his early twenties. “Why now, when you have an African American chief who is highly regarded and trusted in the Black community?” said Steven Belton, president and CEO of the Urban League Twin Cities. “This strikes me as being passive-aggressive Minnesota Nice on steroids. This is a hit on Chief Arradondo.” Pastor Brian Herron said the council is “pandering.” “We have a department that is troubled, but it is also a department that with the leadership of our chief could be really transformed, and the culture of policing could change dramatically if he was given the proper support,” said Herron, who ministers at Zion Baptist Church in north Minneapolis. Council Member Jeremiah Ellison said that there’s urgency to create a system of emergency response that isn’t harmful and that the council is not “pre-prescribing” what that looks like. He added that the charter change provides room for the council to make changes that the community asks for and doesn’t lock them in to minimum police staffing or having police as the sole emergency responders. “The Black community is not a monolith, and just because there’s someone that might have a high profile doesn’t meant that they necessarily speak on behalf of the Black community of Minneapolis,” said Ellison, who is Black and represents a North Side ward that’s about half Black. He said the city wants to create a system that is sustainable because “I’m not always going to be the council member of Ward 5, Jacob’s not always going to be the mayor, Rondo’s not always going to be the chief, and so we can’t build policy based on one person’s personality.” On June 7, a veto-proof majority of the council vowed to disband the Police Department at a rally in Powderhorn Park. The event was hosted by Black Visions Collective, a Black-led racial justice nonprofit, and Reclaim the Block, an affiliated coalition demanding divestment from the police. Those organizations have pushed City Hall in recent years to shift money from the Police Department to violence prevention and community programs as the first move toward a police-free society. “We have been working to call for defunding of the police primarily because we feel like it’s one really critical step in actually being able to abolish the police and open up the resources that are really needed in our communities to provide true safety,” Kandace Montgomery, director of Black Visions Collective, told Belton last week. They spoke during a collegial online discussion hosted by the Twin Cities Urban League. When Belton relayed a question from a listener asking why they couldn’t work with the chief instead of removing power held by a Black person, Montgomery replied, “It’s not a target towards Rondo. It’s actually saying we need the type of leadership, the decades of experience to lead a department like this, that are rooted in community models of safety and restorative justice … and most career law enforcement folks do not have that.” She said she was on daily calls with council members “trying to get stronger and more clear and specific language … we think this is a first step and this is a marathon.” Belton said that some voices have been lost, noting, “There have been a lot of others who have been left out of this conversation.” He told the Star Tribune that the problem is a culture of policing that disregards Black lives, but he said nothing in the new proposal addresses that. He said it’s irresponsible to talk about funding health care, housing and education — advocates want to shift more money from the police budget to social programs — without discussing public safety. “The tension of living in many of these African American communities is that we are overpoliced, we are subjected to excessive police use of force, but at the same time we are also disproportionately victims of crime and witnesses of crime,” said Belton. “And you cannot talk defunding the police if there is not a concomitant strategy of community safety in place as well.” Belton and others want more public hearings, broad community input and a deliberate process before the charter change is put to voters — not after. Levy Armstrong said she doesn’t have confidence in the City Council after it failed to take significant action on police issues over the years. She’s among the those who pushed for more police accountability following the 2015 officer shooting of Jamar Clark, an unarmed 24-year-old African American man. Outrage over the killing prompted an 18-day protest outside the police Fourth Precinct that included Levy Armstrong, along with Montgomery and other activists working to defund police. “I think some of them are seizing upon the national spotlight to look as if they’re making a difference,” Levy Armstrong said of the City Council. Activist Raeisha Williams agreed. She believes in reducing the police budget and making officers reapply for their jobs, doing deep background checks and suspending cops who have more than a few complaints against them. But Williams also wants to ensure the safety of her ward, which is represented by Ellison, whom she ran against in 2017. Williams said it was “grotesque” for the council to propose eliminating emergency response by police “when they had nothing else in place for who was going to protect the community the right way.” Sondra Samuels, president and CEO of the Northside Achievement Zone, urged neighbors at a community meeting this week to write to City Hall in opposition to the plan. She said residents want the same things for the city, but the council’s vote “is premature, it’s immature and it’s dangerous.”
For anyone who want to know about how much of a mess the "Defund the Police" movement in Minneapolis has turned out I strongly recommend reading the outstanding NYT piece on it. It's pretty long so not posting the whole text. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/us/politics/minneapolis-defund-police.html
Did I say anything about defunding the police? Do you honestly believe every negative encounter Black people in Minneapolis face with law enforcement is publicized? I refer you to Myron Hill antidode or how the fact in black neighborhoods cops make the excuse of saying they are "high crime areas" to create probable cause for any Individual living in the neighborhood to search them and their vehicles just because they are part of that neighborhood. These interactions occur daily and the majority of it isn't publicized. Only when it results in death or someone being in prison for decades for a crime they didn't commit does it garner attention by the media. I don't want to patronize you but law enforcement culture is a national epidemic and I think I have a solid grasp of how they think from my time being around people for multiple years who are the prime candidates for law enforcement and join in mass. I know how they feel about urban black culture and how they constantly trash it. To many in these neighborhoods, law enforcement is an occupying force. I don't want to defund the police. I want to reform it and hire higher quality humans where 85% of them didn't don't vote for a Authoritarian nutcase for president (internal polling of law enforcement including third party candidates like Gary Johnson).
Being in a high crime area has been recognized by the courts as a factor to consider in establishing probable cause, because you are more likely to be committing crime in a high crime area than a low crime area. That is what makes them high crime areas and low crime areas. Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence (gallup.com) 81% of black Americans want to see the same or more police presence in their neighborhoods. You know who doesn't want to see police in their neighborhood? Criminals. I see cops in my neighborhood pretty much every day (live within a mile and a half of the police station) all the neighbors of all races usually just give them a wave.
You were talking about how the protest / riots were getting a response. I pointed out how that response isn't always good. The main outgrowth from those in Minneapolis was the "Defund the Police" movement. That has been a mess here in Minneapolis. And yes of course every negative LE interaction with a black person isn't publicized. It isn't in Minneapolis, Houston or anywhere in US. You are generalizing since you don't know the particulars of every interaction and especially drawing conclusions about what is happening here in Minneapolis. The situation here is far more complicated than what is widely getting perceived in the rest of the country. I suspect that goes for every major US city. That is why politicians coming here and saying "We’ve got to stay on the street and we’ve got to get more active, we’ve got to get more confrontational. We’ve got to make sure that they know that we mean business.” isn't helpful anymore than politicians here coming in and encouraging LE to be more aggressive on protesters.
There was another LEO killing of a suspect last night in the Minneapolis area. In Burnsville a southern suburb a carjacker was killed after exchanging fire with LE. The suspect's name hasn't been released but has been identified as white male in his 20's. There was a small protest at the site of the shooting. Just to note the victim who was carjacked was a black women. https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...e-of-officer-involved-shooting-in-burnsville/
Or could it be that the suspect actually was armed and exchanging fire with LEO? Or that the victim in the case fully stated that she believed LEO did the right thing. This is again where people just making snap judgements to push agendas is a problem. Not every LEO shooting regardless of race has been protested. A few months ago there was an LEO killing of a black man in Minneapolis. There were some protests initially but they fizzled out once the facts came out that he actually was armed and had fired at LEO.
The defense in the Chauvin trial has brought up Maxine Waters comments as tainting the process. The judge has said that it might give the defense grounds for appeal and is allowing her comments and other media reports to supplement the record. The judge doesn't believe Waters' comments are prejudicial enough for a mistrial but he found it abhorrent and wishes politicians wouldn't make statements that could influence the jury.
The thing is, even Trump and others made comments months ago. These jurors have seen and heard stuff for months prior to trial. All they need to do is look at all the presented evidence, think about what the experts said, and make a decision. Anyone else's comments shouldn't matter when you see that knee on the neck of a lifeless man, and not lifted. No CPR. Nothing. He caused his death. That is about as evident as it gets. That's my opinion.
It's a pretty tense morning here with the first full day of jury deliberations. I did a drive through of my neighborhood at Midnight and it's pretty eerie seeing all of the businesses boarded up with National Guard on the street. It reminds me a lot of a place waiting for a hurricane. I'm curious if the judge will delay the public announcement of the verdict to allow LE and National Guard to get into position ahead of time.
It will definitely be scary if he's found not guilty. I want to trust in the justice system, but you never know what will happen when you need 12 people to be unanimous.
When people feel they have no voice what do you think is going to happen? The medical examiner said he died from getting a knee to the throat. The police people said what chauvin did was wrong. There is a video of the incident.
I stand by my statement that she was out of line. If she wants to encourage mob violence, do it after the trial. She has a voice, but why risk a mistrial?
