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Ben DuBose: Fertitta’s goal is limiting the “bad years” to one or two seasons

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by csnerd84, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    And the solution was........trade for a worse player on a worse contract and include 4 picks in a reactionary move?

    Yeah...I think my point remains!
     
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  2. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    The solution initially was to get Jimmy Butler.
     
  3. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    And they failed at that. Worth the effort but didn't work out.

    Then the owner demanded a change that the GM never in a million years would have agreed to if allowed to do his job. Les never did that.
     
  4. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    But trying to get that done contradicts the whole "He doesn't want to win and is cheap" narrative when he was trying to add another max player to the team.

    CP3-Harden core wasn't inspiring much confidence going into a 3rd year, he felt there needed to be a change, it wasn't that radical a move until hindsight came in. Not many people here were excited at having CP3 back for a 3rd year and tilman is a fan just like the rest of us. He saw CP3 let the team down and wanted to move on from him. I don't think that team with CP3 replacing Russ beats the Lakers any ways so where would we be now? My guess is Harden would still want out and thus Morey would want out and we'd still be rebuilding.
     
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  5. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    1) It took precisely zero basketball IQ to realize Westbrook for Paul and 4 picks was a franchise-obliterating move the moment it was made.

    2) Where would we be now? Who knows? At the very worst we would control all of our picks and be on a much more accelerated rebuild post-Harden trade.

    I'm not saying Les was the next Jerry Buss. He just never once approached "one of the worst owners in the league", something Tilman has accomplished in less than 3 years by virtually any measure. The notion that Tilman wasn't cheap, specifically in 2019, is just incorrect looking at the moves that have taken place since he came on board. It's really not debatable.
     
  6. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Again, we're ignoring that cheap Tilman wanted Butler, the team's goal was Butler, adding another Max contract and all-star player to CP3/Harden.

    This potential move contradicts the argument that he's cheap and doesn't want to win and before anyone comes in "That's just rumors..." yeah, WOJ rumors. Woj came out himself and said the Rockets were aggressively trying to get Butler in a sign and trade. So this is something Tilman was ready to do but Butler chose Miami. Maybe Harden and CP3 should have recruited him harder...

    We can go into the Russ trade back and forth but at the time it wasn't consensus a bad trade. CP3 at the time had a terrible contract and was getting older, that's why it took so much to even trade for him in the first place.

    I'm not saying Tilman is Jerry Buss, but it's clear to me he's also not the twirling mustache evil owner out to destroy the team (for some reason) either. It's more that he's just an overpassionate fan (to the point where he won't trade to a team out of spite) that just doesn't know how to run a basketball team and it's too eager (like literally every owner in the NBA currently) to pay luxury tax.
     
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  7. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    This year and last year already makes 2.
     
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  8. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    huh? Yes, CP3's contract was unfavorable in the remaining couple years. And you are right, there wasn't a consensus the trade was a terrible move. There are those who thought Westbrook was a superstar and the missing piece of every team to win a championship. Anyone with a moderate BB IQ knew it was a horrible trade. There are not many trades Clutch doesn't like, but he absolutely hated this one....for good reason.

    I dont think anyone said he was out to destroy the team. And we are well aware he is a passionate fan, enough to buy the team. A team he couldn't afford. Which makes him grossly incompetent. The trouble is Tilman thinks he is the smartest guy in the room despite constantly getting played. Morey has totally torched this team in spite of Tilman.

    You have to look past idle league gossip (such as Houston going all out on Butler despite Butler saying he would not play for Houston) and wishful dream team comprised of scrubs. There is a good reason why the Clippers were a joke until the team was taken from Sterling. This is a progressive league and good coaches, staff and players do not want to play for someone like Tilman. Tilman is very toxic.

    You also need to understand Tilman is broke AF. His whole shitty empire is leveraged by this team. Everyone knows this. He can't afford a quality staff, much less the lux tax. Stars are not going to sign max contracts with a broke ass owner. There is a difference between being broke and cheap/frugal.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Daryl Morey has said that he told Harden that the Westbrook deal was likely not to happen at one point and Harden wanted Westbrook but was fine with it. The trade was pushed forward and completed at too high a cost because of Tilman Fertitta... he went against his own GM and coach to make the deal.
     
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  10. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    It’s amazing how many times you have said this but people still don’t get it.
     
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  11. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    So he's selling the team in two years? Awesome look forward to it!
     
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  12. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    CP3-Harden-Butler could win a championship with a team of scrubs, it wasn't just idle league gossip, the Rockets went for Butler several times before his FA, they were trying to get Minny to trade him. He was very very close to becoming a Rocket. It wasn't just some light nothing rumor that can be thrown aside.

    Also, I'm not buying the "No one will want to play here" thing until I actually see it play out. People are attributing decades of bad basketball, comparing him to Sterling of all owners is being overly dramatic. Sterling is one of the worst owners of all time...in any sport...

    We're bad for one year and we're comparing him to Sterling? Yeah, that's over dramatic.
     
  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    People trying to convince themselves that CP3 was "bad" in year 2.

    He wasn't.

    He was just not otherworldly, which was expected coming off injury.

    If we would have managed our assets correctly, we could have rolled with

    CP3
    Harden
    Covington
    Wood
    Capella

    and would be competing for titles these past two years

    Tilman Fertita is cancer, the perfect combination of ego and ignorance.

    But hey, atleast we went for that extra 5%, at the low low price of a better player and 4 future picks.

    Total ****ing moron.
     
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  14. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    No we absolutely would not be wining a title for the next 2 years. The first year of CP3 was barely enough to win a title, it was not happening again unless he maintained that level of play or better.

    He showed up fat, had gone through an ill advised recovery program and his whining had worn on the team.

    We would not have beaten the Raptors or Lakers. There would be no magic additions, only swapping role players for role players.

    There a myth that being in that regular season tier means you might win it. No you won't. We're competing vs 2 MVP candidates, or 1 MVP and 3 All Stars or multiple Superstars. Only 1 out of each 20 years does anyone else win it, and you don't design a team to become an exception.

    This is why Harden left. The team and the city just didn't understand what it takes to be a legit title favorite. By the end it was laughable, I bet they would have tried to keep him and keep lying to us about the promise of wining. Yet they kept blaming him and others for not winning it. Absurd.
     
    #114 Mathloom, Apr 1, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  15. HP3

    HP3 Member

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  16. riko

    riko Member

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    I mean Tillman did call Paul’s desk the worst contract in professional sports history
     
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Fool bragged about it thinking he needed to swing his dick around to prove a point about risk taking.
     
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  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    No, that's not accurate.

    "Barely enough to win a title" - patently false. That team was one of the best teams ever to not win a title. It was just bad luck with injuries and extremely strong competition, competition that doesn't exist anymore at that level.

    Harden left because Tilman turned the organization into a clown car. Literally everything he did was god awful. From not spending, to putting Patrick in a leadership role, to not understanding the value of CP3, to alienating Dantoni, to overriding Morey, to burning assets to save money. Tilman, and Tilman alone is responsible for this train wreck.
     
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  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    That's just not true, LeBron has beaten the warriors with less than Davis. We were an excellent team that was mandated to get worse consistently so as not to spend like a long-time contender normally does.

    We were beaten handily the following season and with Durant missing for a couple of games and CP3 having a whole season to recover. We were 2 elite defenders (and no subtractions) away from wining it. Fertitta would never do that.

    Harden left to win a title and he knew this team didn't have it nor could they churn assets fast enough to add a significant player without losing someone else.

    We were dumping rotation players and replacing them with cheaper players (better value but invariably lesser). That's a leak in tradable salary. Because of trade rules this is a slow leak, and the reverse climb is slower. Morey knew this so you bet your a$$ Harden knew this. We were not going to get anyone unless the owner said re-sign everyone and spend the full MLE immediately, then move that piece without subtracting from the rotation.

    CP3 hasn't made a conference finals without harden in his life. He's no Anthony Davis when we had him, especially with each passing year. He's no Wade or Bosh. He's no Curry or Durant. He's no Kobe or Shaq.

    Your second best player has to be a league wide unanimous max guy, or you should have 2 of them to support.

    And everyone seems to believe Harden is no LeBron, so why would he be able to win with less?

    It takes more to win. You can't build a team to win a Hakeem or Dirk like title. The players will walk or 99.9% lose at every attempt. That's the history of the modern NBA.

    Harden knew this. I knew this. You need two current MVP challengers or 1 MVP and two current all Stars. He didn't leave it up to luck this time.
     
  20. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    it was not a radical idea to move CP3

    not even CP3 for Russ

    The issue came with the pick cost .

    then the Tilman quote about b-ball ops being weak and him leading the way to get it done .

    from that , my opinion is that DM would have done the trade , but not at that cost .. he would rather take another shot with CP3 , I believe harden was OK with that even if he preferred WB.

    but . Morey and MDA have made mistakes
    Too.

    I think had we not done the trade with OKC or had we done it only giving up 1 pick or something (Russ had a worse contract even if you thought he was a better player ... Which , we know the stats don’t . ) James would have stayed .

    We’d have more assets . More chance to land additional help for him and Russ/CP3 or be nearing the end of CP3 and see what DM can get for an expiring Cp or cap space .

    Maybe he would have wanted out . I think the return would have been better because DM would have convinced james to let him control the timetable ... Maybe not . That’s pretty deep in the hypothetical lol
     
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