The point is why would you even get a downside to begin with when you are losing the best player in the trade? It should be all upside and no downside. When I sell you my condo at 50% discount there shouldnt be a 40% chance you will stab me in the head to thank me for my trouble. Rox are already losing out by exchanging Dipo (2 way 20 ppg scorer) for Bradley and Olynk. The fact that it can also harm the Rox on top of losing value is the cherry on the pie Riley slapped on Stone's face.
I fail to see your line of thinking in connecting the dots between star players acquired in completely different eras by different front offices in combination with multiple other assets. What purpose does that serve? I don't care that Francis indirectly led to Harden. I care that Harden was traded and we're trying to recover from that deal. And I understand that moving on from Harden is easier said than done. It will be a hot minute before I can think of him and not have my brain assume he's a Rocket. But I'm trying to divert my attention to the rebuild because dwelling on the Harden deal does me no good in the meantime. That's all I'm trying to say.
But the upside and the likelihood of that upside still outweighs the downside for me, even if the upside is marginal. That's ny point. Making this deal was better than doing nothing for a number of reasons.
I read his post earlier this evening as well and thought he laid it out nicely. There are positives to take away from today, which is all I'm trying to say.
It all comes back to the Harden trade which after Bradley and Olynyk are bought out or expire we only received a boat load of picks and swaps that may or may not pan out. It’s just a **** situation. The trade rumors for Harden (Herro, Siakim, Simmons) sucked from the beginning. When we got Dipo I was excited. The team had depth two former all stars that looked to be rounding back into shape and Wood too. WOW looked pretty good until Wood got injured and suddenly the entire team forgot how to shoot and play defense. Not to mention Dipo and Wall missing every other game. Fast forward 20 games and you have WallHog who can no longer throw a lob scoring 19 points on 30 shots, Brickdipo wanting out, and Tucker gone. Culminate that into rumors of a Dipo trade of a mid FRP and a young player that turns into two scrubs soon to be gone and a very weak swap. The whole season has been one embarrassing gut punch after another. Harden will likely win a chip in Brooklyn and all we can do is pray that some ping pong balls bounce our way....
They could have done that deal with any other team besides Miami and it would be better is my point. You cant judge the upside and downside cuz its all odds at this point. But what you cant argue is Miami got the best player in the transaction and they paid a ridiculously low price for it. To put it another way would you like Levert or the Miami swap and giving Dipo to Miami? Pretty sure asset wise Levert is worth more and he wont help Miami at the same time.
OK, that's fair. I didn't need to take shots at you guys. I just kept reading page after page of melodramatic posts acting as if this trade was some sort of Shakespearean tragedy; it felt like a little much given that we all know Dipo's value was shot to begin with.
LeVert obviously. But he's not a factor in what happened today anymore. I'm not judging today's deal based on what happened in January; I'm judging it based solely on what happened today, because we already knew the LeVert swap for Dipo was a poor decision. I agree with you that Miami got the best player and paid very little for it, but this might have been the best value Stone could get.
You also have to question whether or not they are 12-31 with a chance to retain their draft pick if they have LaVert & Allen .... I don't believe they are and that's not a good trade off. The difference between what you get for Oladipo Vs LaVert & Allen at the deadline isn't worth giving up a 52% chance at a top 4 pick for a 100% chance you get Miami's pick. I'm content with the situation considering the cards we were dealt .... Bottom line is there's a chance to turn this whole thing around in one season.
This is a nice post and well executed attempt at putting ‘lipstick on a pig’ regarding Riley taking Stone to school today. The presumption is Riley was willing to walk from the deal because Dipo goes there anyway in the summer, so Stone had to cave at the last minute. I know it’s fashionable to blame either Tillman or Harden for this dumpster fire, but truth is there’s plenty of blame for both.
Right. We also have to factor in that Lowry would have cost Miami a little more depth on the other hand. Nonetheless there's a very, very high likelihood that we'd be picking in a worse position with Miami's pick if Miami makes the Lowry trade because we don't come down on the price for Oladipo. Of course the overwhelming hope is that this is all moot and we get a top 4 pick.
My sentiments exactly. And I hope Harden wins a ring on the Nets banana boat of all stars. He is fun to watch.
The dots to connect is how little I care due to the magnitude/history of the situation being much bigger than Dipo or the trade pieces that he netted for us. In your original post, yes, you mention picks, and they matter to everyone. But Dipo as a player did nothing for me as a Rockets fan. I've been a Rocket fan for a while. Not gonna forget all these years in 1 season unless we win a chip, and we're far from that. I'm pretty bitter with all these bandwagon fans. I don't want to pander to them to think only about the past 4 months of this team. That kind of thinking allows them to hop on and off the bandwagons, and that isn't good for the team.
I dont agree with judging the deal only with today in mind. The FO is responsible for the roster construction and hence it needs to be analyzed with respect to previous moves. You admit that Stone made mistake with Levert trade and you are fine with that but some of us are not. We can give Stone benefit of doubt with his eye for talent in the case of Wood, Tate and KMJ but losing one of the key piece in Harden trade for nothing is a big deal because it will set our rebuilding back.
Levert and Allen are two separate trades. They are self contained they dont need to happen at the same time or can prob be worked using filler like Exum. Allen trade was a massive win in retrospect. Allen was leaving/Rox dont wanna pay him, Fertita saved on 30M cash and the Rox got a low FRP and KPJ. It was win all around. Anybody who think the Rox messed up Allen part is either ignorant of all the factors or just wrong. Levert trade was a mistake, Rox gambled on Dipo being better than Levert (surprise they both the same) and they lost on that twice first ditching Levert and second getting almost nothing except a swap with a possible downside for Dipo. Levert hasnt been lighting it up but neither was Dipo in fact they both scoring at around the same rate. Rox still offered a 2 yr 25M deal to Dipo so I guess they woulda been ecstatic with Levert's 16M a year deal. Levert has possible cancer (???) and has always been injury prone but I guess he woulda been good as an EG successor esp considering his age. The only upside I can see from the Levert trade is it netted us Olynk and a swap. Olynk is a decent role player and prob the perfect complement to Wood cuz he a defensive garbage man with some stretch. Prob is he is 29 and a FA, he prob gone at the end of the season unless there are no takers for his services. If he walks away for nothing then its just the swap which is objectively worse than Levert. The Levert side def pulls down the Harden trade IMO. The picks and swaps are good but Dipo/Levert accounted to like 30% of the return. Rox didnt even get 1 good young player in the deal like a Nunn just old expiring dudes.
And you are kidding yourself if you think the Rockets did not absolutely get finessed this year. Go read any post from Miami fans, NBA fans, we are a complete joke. If you think this front office is fine, you have not watched any basketball. There is not a single person outside of this forum that does not think we got finessed. Trading Harden for Oladipo and getting Olynik and Bradley in return is like trading in a brand new Ferrari for a broken down BMW and then getting a broken down Fiat in return for the BMW, and then thinking this is fine because the BMW was broken anyways.
Rox got clowned on for the Dipo side but Dipo isnt the main attraction for the Harden trade, its all the picks and Jarrett Allen. You can read my post above for the detailed breakdown. It doesnt make the Rox FO a joke, and it doesnt change the fact Stone got Wood, KPJ and Kmart JR all without signficant resources. Dipo trade is just 1 part of the Harden trade, and even Harden trade is just 1 of the trades Stone has done for the season.
