to me... not even with hindsight... Smart and Culver are the outliers in terms of performance and hype in college.
im a big fan of the ignite boys, no team could go wrong with either green or kuminga. both have electrifying athleticism and offensive skill. kuminga's build is already pro-ready. meanwhile, green has been touted as top in his class since his sophomore year. yes, ahead of suggs and cade. I also understand, green outplayed these kids in team USA so I trust him that he could still rise above everyone else, competition wise.
Thank you for this sound and logical post, much needed after that verbal defecation from @Reeko He's no scrub, going to be a nice piece on a contender after spending 3-4 years learning the game on a bad team. Franchise player? Not in my eyes. Suggs has that Fox, Ja or Trae special in his game that can turn a franchise around. Mobley had a ceiling that is off the charts as well, still growing into his body most likely.
I don't think anyone is calling Cade a scrub. I have him at 4 behind Mobley, Suggs, Green. So that's still above 56 players that will be drafted. But if we are talking about generational type player that people have been touting...give me a break. Someone earlier mentioned Luka, please, Luka won everything there was to win in the Euroleague and was the youngest MVP ever. Even if you never seen him play, going by stats and pedigree he was can't miss. Go look up the draft thread or in dish, I called him the white Harden before he got drafted. Cade doesn't have the stats of Luka, doesn't have the accolades of Luka, doesn't have the winning of Luka. There is no comp.
BTW Kuminga is another guy that jumps out as does nothing special whatsoever and his stats in the g league were absolute garbage. Screams "Sekou Doumbouya".
Yeah I should clarify ... Freshman Cunningham reminds me of the current 4yr NBA vet that Tatum has blossomed into ... NOT the college frosh version of Tatum Cade showed up as a freshman with the diverse, multi-faceted game it has taken Tatum years to develop I never saw the quantum leap into well-rounded superstar coming for Tatum after his first 2 years in the league I had him pegged as a 1-dimensional scorer (Melo/Tobias) with little upside to develop heading into year 3 Boy was I wrong Whatever changed that summer unlocked an entirely new player His range suddenly extended to include 3's in bulk He found a new level of commitment to DEF Even his playmaking has improved markedly (up to career high 4.3 APG this year) Tatum is the more gifted athlete Cade is more skilled and advanced at this age Both fill it up from all over the court
Someone on here almost quit and took their ball home when I said Cade and Livingston were similar players with similar skillsets and size. I don't think that's outrageous one bit, and shouldn't be taken as a slight, like Shaun was some scrub or something... Would definitely take Suggs over Mobley though, especially if someone really wants Wall. Suggs is going to be Brandon Roy 2.0 with elite vision.
https://www.si.com/nba/2021/03/24/2021-nba-draft-stock-watch-march-madness Evan Mobley, USC Rest assured, Mobley has been a hot topic in NBA circles after the Trojans whomped Kansas on Monday night. After attending both USC wins (they also beat Drake comfortably in the first round), I think there’s a strong argument to be had that the 7' 0" Mobley has been the single most impactful player in the tournament so far. His immense wingspan and standing reach (previously listed at 7' 4" and 9' 0”), instinctive timing, quick hands and above-average athleticism combine to make him the single most impressive college shot-blocker since Anthony Davis. Mobley has not been viewed as the favorite for the No. 1 pick this season, and Cade Cunningham still holds the mantle, at least for now. But the key development from the weekend is that Mobley is now doing pretty much everything he can force the issue. If there’s a pathway for him to be the No. 1 pick, this is probably what it looks like. Playing on the West Coast and outside of user-friendly TV windows has diminished some of Mobley’s broader appeal this season, but his rim protection skills and expanding offensive skill set are the primary reasons the Trojans are 24-7, and headed to the Sweet 16. They boast Ken Pomeroy’s fifth-rated defense and hold opponents to a mere 41.4% shooting on two-pointers, which covers for bouts of ugly offense and average guard play. They made a ton of shots against Kansas, which may be a one-time deal, but Mobley’s presence all but ensures their games will be competitive. Mobley is massively impactful guarding the paint, with his combination of length, smarts, and quick feet enabling him to essentially erase entire portions of the floor for opposing shooters. He’s also been nearly impossible to get in foul trouble, finishing just two games with four fouls and never fouling out—a legitimately prodigious achievement for a 19-year-old shot-blocker. Mobley already understands how to use his own verticality: not only does he contest shots and erase space with his length and quick feet in rotations, but he’s learned that instead of making plays on opponents’ release points, he can simply wait for the ball to leave their hand and still swat it on the way up much of the time. Although he weighs only 215 pounds and needs to add core strength and fill out his narrow build a bit further, Mobley’s technique is so advanced that it’s hard to hold much concern over physical translation. On offense, Mobley’s versatility is his primary calling card, and it’s a meaningful one. He could be a more assertive scorer at times, but he’s skilled enough to play all over the floor. Mobley can handle, pass, and shoot, with room for added growth in all three areas. One big takeaway from the Kansas game is that Mobley should eventually be able to punish switches in the NBA, a critical piece of the eval given his body type and high center of gravity. The undersized and undermanned Jayhawks tried to defend him with 6' 5” Marcus Garrett for much of the game, hoping Garrett could get underneath his handle and make a difference. Mobley has the composure to pass out of double teams, and a reliable hook shot that allows him to finish directly over most opponents. NBA teams think he’ll shoot threes just fine. As a 7-footer who can play the four or five and pose danger as a face-up threat, spacer, screener, roller and playmaker (and couple it with elite defense), Mobley is a pretty special prospect. He has a chance at being a real offensive fulcrum, in a sense that recent blue-chip bigs like Deandre Ayton and James Wiseman likely do not. The odds of him evolving into a Nikola Jokic or Joel Embiid-type scorer aren’t likely, but eventual usage patterns in the vein of LaMarcus Aldridge, or Chris Bosh look more realistic. Mobley is a quiet personality on and off the floor, but it shouldn’t be mistaken for a lack of motor, and it’s evident the Trojans follow his lead. From my perspective, Mobley now sits as the 1B to Cunningham’s 1A—I haven’t changed my mind on that front, but it’s a conversation teams are having, and there’s confidence in both prospects having stellar NBA careers, barring the unexpected. USC will face familiar opponent Oregon in the Sweet 16, and if they win, it’ll likely be title favorite Gonzaga. It’s hard to think of a better stage for Mobley than that matchup. Cade Cunningham, Oklahoma State Cunningham and the Cowboys were ousted by a red-hot Oregon State team on Saturday, ending hopes of a dark-horse Final Four run that briefly looked very real after Illinois lost to Loyola. Oklahoma State was down big at halftime, cut the lead to three, and lost after some bad shot selection late in the game. I was in attendance, and frankly, the Beavers were the stronger team. It was certainly disappointing to see Oklahoma State drop a winnable game, but it was also an invaluable opportunity to gain an understanding of Cunningham’s specific team context. Statistically speaking, Cunningham was not at his best against Oregon State or Liberty, shooting a combined 3-15 from the field on two-pointers, 6-19 from three, and recording four assists to five turnovers. (On the bright side, he did collect seven steals.) But ultimately, the popular narrative that Cunningham simply did not have much help is mostly correct, as well as the fact that Oklahoma State was among the least experienced teams in the tournament. The fact they didn’t advance is a missed opportunity for Cunningham, but also isn’t some glaring stain in his ledger—after all, the Cowboys far surpassed most people’s preseason expectations. In the end, NBA teams should understand that Cunningham’s immense basketball IQ and unusual level of maturity, calm and selflessness at a young age bodes extremely well for him long-term. I was impressed with the way he treated his teammates, and his unflinching in-game focus was a tone-setting factor in the Cowboys’ ability to mount a comeback against Oregon State in the first place.The Cowboys lacked consistent shooting in their role player corps, as well as a big with strong screening acumen to play a dangerous two-man game with Cunningham. Imagine Cunningham manipulating defenses with a steady diet of spread pick-and-roll opportunities in the NBA, and it’s hard not to envision that being a good place to hitch your attack. His turnovers have been a concern, but there’s also more to his game than we saw in college. Mentally, Cunningham remains as unshakable a one-and-done freshman as I’ve seen in the last 10 years. That counts for something. He wore a target on his back all season from opposing defenses, and ultimately has done enough to hold the No. 1 spot. The Luka Dončić comparisons should stop—frankly, there won’t be another Dončić—but Cunningham’s size, shooting and playmaking ability could place him among the NBA’s better guards in relatively short order. Jalen Suggs, Gonzaga While Suggs remains all but certain to be among the first five players drafted, he has not been particularly good in the tournament thus far, shooting 1-of-9 from three and recording eight turnovers to just five assists in Gonzaga’s two wins. But it was useful to see him play in person against Oklahoma and get a sense of his physicality, which has made him one of the most dangerous downhill guards in college basketball at 6’ 4”. Suggs is particularly explosive in small spaces, and his ability to attack defenders’ bodies off the dribble and finish above the rim should translate. He’s a good playmaker, but much better in transition than in the halfcourt, where he’s still learning to manipulate defenses and really run the team. Suggs’ shooting splits have leveled out a bit after a hot start to the season, but that was to be expected. And even if he’s an average three-point shooter, he should add plenty of value on the defensive end, where he can cover more ground with less effort than most athletes his size. Some view him as more of a super role-player than as a high-usage star, but his floor remains high. Attending Gonzaga has made Suggs’ adjustment to the college game much easier. Surefire first-rounder Corey Kispert and sneaky-good Joel Ayayi can dictate perimeter flow and specialize away from the ball. Sure-handed Drew Timme, who lacks an NBA body but has big-time skill, is often their first read and a failsafe inside. Suggs has done a good job learning on the fly, even if his stats don’t always reflect that. At this point, teams feel comfortable with what Suggs brings to the table—for many scouts I’ve spoken with, it feels like simply a matter of preference between him, Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga, who have settled in as the likely selections in the 3-to-5 range of the draft. If Gonzaga runs the table and wins the title, it certainly can’t hurt him.
We've heard about about Cunningham's PnR mastery, and how he'll be a point guard in a wing body, but his NCAA assist numbers didn't seem to support any of that. Some explained it away with "His teammates were bad", but I wasn't sure how much stock I put into that. Well, someone made a video highlighting Cade's teammates failing to convert on his passes. I feel like any college team could make a similar video of blown layups and dunks, although to be fair, there are some pretty egregious misses in this one.. That being said, it is some nice passing. Vid does a good job showing his poise, control, and how he manipulates the PnR.
Green is the no brainer for me. Gonna be a solid player at a minimum, but could also be an MVP. No bust potential imo.
Cade Cunningham reminds me of Grant Hill assuming a high end outcome. He is going to be an all star caliber player because of his size, ability to shoot and pass well enough to punish double teams. He also has reasonably high defensive outcome potential as well. His feet are not the quickest but he is very strong and big and gives good effort. He has a 7'1" wingspan and that will make up for some of the lack of foot speed. Also with his size he is ideal for switching and he can play 3 different positions on the floor comfortably. This is still a league where perimeter stars make the biggest difference, so he will likely go #1, and I would likely take him #1. Evan Mobley is interesting, and I am not saying he will be this good - but he reminds me of David Robinson from a physical ability standpoint. He has very nimble feet and he is very quick and explosive inside. He is very good in transition and he passes well enough to avoid being a black hole. Mobley is over 7'0" and has a massive wingspan that was measured at 7'4" entering college and is noticeably longer now. He has excellent instincts and anticipation and is likely to lead the NBA in blocks someday, especially if he ends up a Rocket. He is very thin at 215 lbs entering college. However he has a strong frame and should be able to avoid losing quickness as he gains weight. He isn't ever going to be heavy, but he could easily add 20-25 lbs over the next couple of seasons. Wood also would have no problem in a switch or hybrid defensive system. Some don't think he is a good fit for the Rockets but I actually think he is close to an ideal hit. He is going to add weight, but even if he doesn't he can defend modern 5's and what he lacks in sand in his pants, he makes up with length and positioning. He also would give the Rockets the longest post in the NBA, the best shot blocking duo and both Wood and Mobley can run the floor and shoot outside. Both also excel off the pick and roll.
I think Cunningham is a better player right now, but Mobley has higher upside. Skilled big man is harder to come by.
I agree that his stats in the G league arent anything particularly jaw dropping. But the fact that he put up those numbers against professional adults at an age where he should have been in high school (reclassified from the class of 21) is impressive. Also the fact that he did that playing mostly as a 4 where he had to deal with more physicality is pretty notable. Finally, the fact that he led the Ignite team in usage (despite being on a team with Green) says something about what Brain Shaw and the rest of the team were seeing in practice. He is not my #1 (Cade) or #2 (Mobley) but I am happily putting his name down at 3 or 4.
Anyone watched Luka Garza? Just read an article about him in Croatian newspapers. They say he's expected to go late in the 1st round. His stats seem pretty good. Is he worth a gamble as our second pick? https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4277951/luka-garza
