Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

None. We’re not going anywhere. Why pay to move him? Hold onto him until that contract becomes an expiring asset.

 

Jrue Holiday can shoot Simmons cant. Jrue Holiday makes 25M Simmons makes the super max+trade kicker. The proof of the pudding is in the eating if Simmons worth all that and Morey already decided to trade him why wasnt there a pretrade offer for him similar to Jarrett Allen and Levert? As easily one of the top 15 most valuable contracts in the NBA shouldnt those assets be in the table when Morey talks to the Rockets? Levert and Allen had offers on the table yet top 15 most valuable contract didnt have any? Gimme a break. Being unique is only good if that uniqueness is an asset, being unable to shoot isnt a good unique trait that just makes you a borderline role player unlike players like Lebron, Harden etc there is little chance you will outproduce your super max salary cuz you cant put points on the table you need shooters and scorers to function properly instead of being a stand alone package.

The 4 picks arent late firsts they are 1 low FRP and 3 unprotected firsts spread over 7 yrs. Massive difference esp when you consider the age of KD and Harden and the injury history of Irving.

I say all this as a fan of Simmons. I think he is a good player and would take the Sixers package as a decent offer to Harden. But Nets deal is just way better value wise it aint even a joke. You just dont realize it cuz the only real player the Rox got is Dipo, who sucks rn.

 

Pop said it, so IT MUST BE FACT!!!



(Eh, not really)

 

I mean Jrue wasn't even in the talks for Harden while Simmons was..... that says a lot about their respective value.....

No, the Nets package just has more potential to be better. If Nets win the championship this year then the Nets package just got a bit worse.

 

Closer than you, we can all agree on that.

 

cant wait to see this thread for the next 7 years.

 

Yeah, at this point those of us that are okay with the Brooklyn trade only have and wait approach since it's a long term investment. It may pan out or it may not, but there isn't much we can argue besides knowing that the potential is there, but obviously no guarantee.

 

I think Stone saw the outcome of the Celtics KG/Pierce trade and was convinced that rather than a player for player trade, giving the team a longer window to build through the draft and free agency was the smarter way to rebuild.

With Simmons you basically have one shot. With the KG/PP trade, think of how many bites at the apple Boston have had. Now, you could argue that they've struck out, and whoever Tatum is years later isn't good enough, but he's still to be considered a "bite at the Apple", and as a GM I think that's what you are trying to do more than anything in getting as many cracks as you can.

I know the BKN trade hurts now, but I do think there's much more reward potentially in store. Maybe not this year, or next, but after that it could possible set this team up for a treasure trove of assets for years to come. Right now Stone just needs to focus everything he can on striking gold in the draft this year wherever they land, getting what he can for Dipo & PJ, and trying to sign another Christian Wood type of player this Summer.

With Simmons here without any healthy supporting players who knows... we could be just as bad this year, and the trade is pointless with Ben Simmons himself asks for a trade because we can't get him any help.

 

You truly are a glutton.

For punishment.

I guess you're going to QAnon your way out of the Kia Defensive Player of the Year tracker too amirite?

LOL



What a casual.

 

It's a bird in the hand vs two in the bush issue....

While you do have "one shot" with Simmons, I think a more accurate way of describing Simmons and his contract is having "a new window" (which implies a deadline).

The Nets package also saves Tilman the most money, which could have been a significant factor.

 

Simmons is a young perennial all star in his early 20s signed on a multi year contract. Guys like that are the most valuable contracts in the NBA. Holiday isn't young nor is he a perennial star. Neither is past his prime Westbrook. If either of those guys can extract that kind of value out of teams, that tells you all you need to know about late draft picks and swaps.

If the question is why didn't we take Simmons then route him to a third team for picks then my answer is because Tilman never really wanted to negotiate in good faith with Morey. The Rockets wanted more than Simmons if they're gonna hand Morey the Championship.

 

100%. I think Stone wants to keep his job and establish himself in the league so making Tillman happy had to be a motivational factor to sell Stone on the Nets deal.

Still I think there's multiple chances to get someone of Ben Simmon's caliber but with better chances to have better pieces around that player when they are acquired or developed. That's basically how Stone will sell it if he's ever to do any media appearances ever again (which doesn't seem to be what he wants to do ever).

But yeah you are trying to get lucky drafting a Ben Simmons when you know you could have already had Ben Simmons on a long term contract. So there's that.

 

BIG agree with dobro.

Simmons is great but we needed to punt further down the field then trying to win with him, Wood and the John Wall contract over the next 3 years.

We all need to settle in. Rebuilding next 3-4 years and then using excess draft capital to plug critical piece or pieces into what we can gather through drafting.

 

While I think there are some complimentary pieces now, I do think John Wall complicates things in a significant way.

While we will have multiple shots at getting a true, unquestioned #1 pick, it's still hard to catch those birds. The biggest benefit of the Nets package is we are now bad and can be bad for high draft picks (more so the next two seasons). However, the Nets being dominant and winning the championship this year doesn't portend well for those future picks.

 

Yep, trading Russ for Wall was a ball breaker.

 

If we are bad enough to land a top 3 pick this year I’ll count it as a win

 

So you think Simmons by himself is better than the entire Nets package? Lol

No the question isnt why didnt the Rox take Simmons and route him to a 3rd team the question is why didnt Morey route Simmons to a 3rd team and have a deal waiting for the Rox? Maybe you are right, Tillman didnt wanna negotiate in good faith with Morey. But Morey clearly didnt think that he informed Simmons and his agent he was about to be traded. If you look at the Nets for example Allen and Levert didnt pass thru Rox hands anymore all that was handled by Nets side. So nothing was preventing Morey from working out a deal.

Simmons being signed to a long deal isnt necessarily a good thing cuz he is making the super max and would also have a trade kicker. Its the same logic why John Cp3, although a good player, isnt really worth his deal. If he was signed to 25M like Jaylen Brown, then yeah he is valuable. If he was a true franchise player like Giannis, then yeah he is valuable. I dont know how many teams are gonna give up the farm for a super max contract whi cant shoot.

 

???

Nets winning a championship wont affect the Nets package as next year is just a swap, its not gonna be used unless somehow Nets dont make the playoffs this year.

Why would Jrue be in talks for Harden to begin with? Welp Giannis wasnt in talks for Harden guess that shows Simmons is more valuable than Giannis amirite?

Nets package is a lot better cuz aside from Simmons the 2 two "promising" young guys Maxey and Thybulle of the Sixers turned out to be scrubs who cant score. That would have just left Simmons and maybe 1 low frp as the net proceeds of the Harden trade which is a lot worse than 4 FRPs, 4 swaps and Dipo.

If people are angry at Dipo now dont know how haply they would be with Simmons. Dipo shooting 30% from 3 Simmons shooting 0% from basically anywhere a foot from the basket. And Dipo isnt elite defensively but he is good defensively. Simmons can playmake but this roster cant hit shots so that playmaking is wasted.

 

Why are we still concerning ourselves with what Philly would have done

 

Of course it will affect the Nets package, as the most value is down the line and not next year. Is it more advantageous if the Nets are good or bad?