Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

he a 10x better passer then giannis, n who cares what he can't do. I care what u can...he is so elite in transition n defense. Again point is, if it's better then victor

 

I think Houston should target a guy with Simmons' level of experience and age. 24 with 4-5 years of experience and a star level, that will be the perfect compliment to the young guys we will have coming in, not too old to waste their talent as the guys develop, and not too young/inexperienced to still have a presence in the locker room.

 

2 MVPs later what?

Do you even know what you are arguing about? I like Simmons. Go home you're drunk.

 

It took 6 years from Morey getting hired to acquiring Harden. If you cant wait that long you should be following a diff team.

 

???? Giannis is the one with 2 MVPs not Simmons. Thats why its a joke to say Simmons is basically Giannis. Its like saying Souljaboy is basically JayZ.

 

Gregg Popovich says you are a casual too.

LOL

 

Not a soul is debating that Victor Oladipo is better than Ben Simmons, so hopefully, you have a different "point".

 

Considering Jrue Holiday was traded for 2 FRP and 2 Swaps, i would say yes Ben Simmons is worth 4FRP and 4 swaps. 4 Late first are incredibly worthless. When you take Simmons youth, his contract length, his uniqueness and his pedigree into consideration, he's easily one of the top 15 most valuable contract in the NBA. People get stuck at what Simmons can't do on the court or his fit with so and so. Its completely irrelevant. You take the package with the most value. Ben Simmons, signed to a multi-year deal, and 2 late first are worth more than 4 late first and possible swaps.

 

With that said, if your argument for the BK trade is that its so bad its great, as someone who is pro-tank i think thats a valid argument. This current Rocket team could be the worst team of all time. It wouldn't be with Simmons so..... sure i guess?

 

Jrue wasn’t worth the 4 picks and every team in the league including New Orleans and Milwaukee knows it. What he was worth was increasing your championship odds when you had no other assets, while getting off a ceiling limiter such as Eric Bledsoe, all while helping persuade Giannis to stay.

Any comparison of any deal to Jrue’s must take that into context. It was a ridiculous overpay.

 

This might be romanticizing it a bit or I just might be an old fart but I want my franchise cornerstone to be the player that I go to at the end of games, specifically having the ball and actually taking the shot. I don't want to put my team's championship chances on the line for him to almost always pass up the shot. There's never been a championship team in the NBA that had their best player never not taking the last shot or were at least capable of taking the last shot. Even Magic Johnson had defining moments where he took the last shot.

Basically your alpha dog better have the skills and testicular fortitude to want the ball to either make the right pass or take the shot. Simmons, from what I've seen so far, ain't that player.

 

100%. David Griffin probably told the Bucks "I need 4 picks" as a joke and the Bucks couldn't wait to say yes.

 

What about this gem?

In the modern NBA , picks have been given away like nothing for some very mediocre talent. You know the old saying? All it takes is one sucker. Ben Simmons has way more value than those 2 at their respective age.

 

This.

It is the same reason that the Rockets offered to throw the kitchen sink at the Wolves for Jimmy Butler and ultimately why the Rockets (to the dismay of the GM and HC) paid as much as they did for Westbrook.

When you have a definitive window, and pressure from truly elite players AND limited assets/cap space... you over pay for someone that can potentially put you over the top.

 

I do think it's a bit romanticizing and I think it's just mental gymnastics in the context of the Harden trade. Right or wrong, Simmons would have been viewed as the Harden heir even if he's isn't a scorer, much less a crunch time bucker getter. Right or wrong, nameless, faceless future draft picks can be the next Luka, AD, or Lebron when it's more likely we get super role players and/or all stars instead of a top 5 perennial player.

We were never getting fair value for Harden, especially with how long we waited. Simmons is more of a Rudy Gobert type cornerstone than Donovan Mitchell, the latter being a type of player that is more abundant. I could be talked into either the Philly or Nets package, the latter being a success if we get lucky with the #1 pick.

 

Big brained Tillman Fertitta

 

For me it was never about how Simmons was going to come in and fill Harden's shoes because that's unrealistic. It was more about "Okay, we bring in Simmons and Thybulle in a a trade...how are we going to build around both players to get back to being an elite team?" That's the part where I couldn't buy in because (to use your comparison) getting a player like Donovan Mitchell to pair with Simmons' Gobert presence is hard and that's where we disagree. Even with scoring at an all time high I don't think it's easy to find an elite scorer...it's as hard to find one of those as it is to find an elite defender (the Jazz got lucky).

 

Regardless of picks or Simmons, it will require a bit of luck to get back into the elite group of teams. It sucks, but right now Utah is there unless they got stomped in the first round. Even though, I used Gobert as an example of Simmons, they are very different. Simmon's isn't a scorer or a shooter, but he's been in top 10 in assists every year. How easy it to find point center who is 1st team all defense? I'm not suggesting it's easy to find an eliter scorer, just easier than finding a defensive force that can run an offense.

My biggest concern with a Simmons in season trade is John Wall.

 

If we had acquired Simmons, would you have wanted him to play in the front court with Wood? I'm only asking because you labeled him (rightfully I might add) as a "point center" and that's where he should play. But therein lies the rub--there's been no indication from Simmons that he wants to be that player and continue to be the official "point guard". I think if he was okay with being in the front court then yea I think that would be fantastic for Houston and Wood but I doubt that would have happened.

Re: Wall, yup that was also a question mark for me, among other red flags like is Simmons' agency going to let him squander his NBA years in Houston when Klutch Sports love to put their players in markets with more visibility?

 

Simmons is pretty amorphous in terms of "point center" or "front court". The bolded seems more like a forced issue than an actual issue unless there's been reporting on what type of role Simmons' prefers. Simmons' lack of shooting makes him a different type of playmaker, more of a predatory one looking to push things in transition or collapse the defense. He's clearly not a good half court playmaker as he's more off ball, setting screens, cutting, or hanging out in the dunkers spot.

Woods isn't the perfect pairing, but he's a bit Embiid lite with more mobility. Woods seems to do well in the half court, just blowing by guys to get to the basket. That skillset would help Simmons in the half court.

Bringing up Klutch seems like searching for issues, which is fair, but you have Simmons on the first year of a 5 year max. I view Simmons long term deal a plus as it gives us nice window to operate out of. Sure it's concerning that Klutch is out there, but not close to being a deal breaker.

I'm more concerned about how John Wall reduces the window or will cost draft picks to move. This season would most likely be a transition season as we set the table for the upcoming Simmons era, but how many picks would you give up to move Wall? 2 picks to Miami for expirings? That would hurt.