Okay, now that you're okay with exploring the gray area, we can make some progress. Harden and CP3 obviously butted heads in CP3's second season, especially towards the end of the year and the playoffs. But don't forget that Harden had carried that team while CP3 was out injured, and MDA began leaning more and more towards heavy ISO-ball. It appeared to most like CP3 didn't agree with that, hence the head-butting. Is that Harden's fault? MDA's? CP3's? Like most things, the blame is probably shared. But keep in mind that CP3's play had fallen off substantially from his previous year; so much so that after the season he felt obligated to make serious changes in his diet and training regimen. After the season ended, some combination of Morey/MDA/Harden/CP3 should have sat down in the same room and worked it out. Especially the two players, who are well-paid superstars. Ignoring each other (which most accounts say they did) was definitely not the solution. So most credible accounts say the Rox felt the solution was to keep the same basic rotation and add Butler. Harden went into recruitment mode (as he'd done with CP3) and supposedly had Butler ready to seriously explore being a Rocket. As we all know, he made a stop in Miami first and succumbed to the charms of Pat Riley. No Rockets to blame for that one, **** happens. PG13 decides to split OKC, so Westbrook—now on an island—is suddenly in play. Morey knows Harden and Russ are buddies, so he asks James what he thinks of adding Russ (keep in mind the Rox were already prepared to shed enough salary to give Butler the max). Harden says sure. Something tells me Morey was already wondering how a 3-superstar-guard lineup would work, but it does mean you have two of those guys on the court at all times, presenting major matchup headaches for opposing teams, especially their benches. Meanwhile, keep in mind that Tilman had been b****ing "privately" to many people that CP3 had the worst contract in the league and that his injuries made it impossible for Tilman to get good value for that money. He felt he was being ripped off, and Tilman the Big Businessman hates even the appearance of being ripped off. This is where it gets a little murky, proven narrative-wise. @Nook might be able to fill in the blanks here, but credible reports have it that there was an obstacle to simply adding Russ. My best guess is that Tilman preferred a simple swap of the two players because bringing Westbrook on board made CP3 expendable (both being star guards). Most of us can see the gigantic gulf between the talents of those two guys, but Tilman was aching to dump CP3's contract. So Morey tells Harden that the only way to bring in Russ might be to trade CP3. Harden likely said, "I'll make it work." Then the real negotiations begin and Morey learns that OKC wants an ass-ton of picks in addition to CP3. Morey wants to walk away at that point, but as Tilman has admitted more than once, he decided to override his "basketball ops" guys' decision and ordered Morey to pull the trigger on the trade. Lots of gray area there, but there's one unquestionable truth: If Tilman hadn't forced Morey to do the trade, it would NOT have happened. Tilman himself said that in very clear terms. Harden may be partly to blame for not realizing CP3 was a much better fit than his bud Russ would ever be, and telling Morey it wasn't a good idea. But CP3 had kind of pissed in the pool a bit over the last few months, and besides, Morey already knew it wasn't a good idea. I suppose he (DM) could have just told Tilman that even exploring such a trade was suicide, but we don't know the full situation there. Did Morey bring up the idea? Did Tilman say, "Hey, maybe Westbrook wants to leave OKC now" (while drooling about dumping "the worst contract in the league"). Who knows? How anyone in their right mind could look at the credible reports and decide that Harden shoulders most of the blame for that trade is beyond me. The same can be said regarding Morey, but less emphatically. And for the record, bringing Tim McMahon tweets in as evidence is weak sauce. Tilman would approve.
Bro, everyone can agree Tilman has been cheap and has made financial mistakes since buying the team. But the fact he needed borrowed money to buy the team suggests his pockets weren't quite sufficient at the time. So can everyone agree that once the loan gets paid or at least gets paid down makes increased spending is more likely? And yeah, we better draft well.
It is funny to see poeple dish on Tillman for using borrowed money when that is what rich people do, they never use their own they leverage OPM.... Other Peoples Money. DD
My problem is not that Tilman has done a stand up job, its that many ignore what you just said and only chose one of the reasons why. I'm in agreement, it had to be a combination of those 4 individuals. Maybe the truth leans more towards one over the other, maybe Tilman played the biggest role but not the entire role. It played out perfectly terrible for us. But at the time it felt like Paul would be getting ready to retire by now and instead he is in the all star game. Tilman was not even wrong in regard's to the Paul contract, he indeed was about to lose tons of money and if Westbrook did not work out he was much more attractive via trade anyways. Just three years later, everything that could go wrong went wrong. Many are begging for Wall or Oladipo to be traded at this time, we have no idea what they will do within the next three years. If they all of sudden become contributors elsewhere do we continue to call for The Rockets ownership and front office's head? Yeah, I wish Tilman and Morey would have figured it out. Not traded Paul or Capela, Harden may still be here. Heck maybe even if Capela would have stayed Harden would still be here. What if the upcoming trades of Wall, Tucker and Gordon leads to something really good. Do we give Tilman and Stone credit for the prior bad moves that put us in a position to make good moves in the draft? The thing is, right now. Today, Four Rockets are to blame for some bad decisions that at the time were at least reasonable. Two of them resigned and went to better situations. One of them pouted until he got traded exactly to the destination of his choice, and one of them remains in Houston. The others left so I guess they don't share the blame, only the one that stayed. Its not little what these guys did to this team, unintentionally. The position Stone and Tilman are in to fix this train wreck is awful but hey at least they are here and trying. At least I hope Tilman is.
It's funny you can't quote a post you refer to. A post that gives hope for the franchise you seem to care about. When people HAVE the money, they usually buy **** outright and borrow nothing. A cousin's husband of mine was working at River Oaks Chrysler on Kirby and had McGrady walk in and just buy **** cash. No credit check was necessary, no borrowing. But let's use your formula. If Tilman didn't spend money on a potential championship-level team while he clearly appeared to be in major debt, why would he ever spend even when said-debt is paid? Do you hate Harden AND Tilman? Do you think there's no hope for the franchise?
Only time will tell, Im not holding im breath and Im already very upset with what has transpired as his tenure as owner.
It was bound to happen anyway, Harden was going to want a ring and team up with super stars sooner or later. The day Paul went out is the day this generation of The Rockets died... It was a matter of when, if anything bringing Westbrook as a last hail mary was on its own a damn good bet.
No it wasnt. What a smart owner would have done would be not interfering with your GM. Morey would also never want Westbrook over Chris Paul.
Oh yeah that's true, Tilman was the GM that day. It was just Tilman, no wonder the Rockets website only has Tilman on the front office tab...
Cmon man. We know Harden had a part to play and we know Tillman did too as the doofus said it himself. Morey and our analytics guys would never EVER EVER want Westbrook over Paul.
Yeah but Morey could have rejected the deal even if pushed by Tilman, I doubt he would have gotten fired. Or nah?
When your owner tells you to do something, the employee that wants to keep their job genuinely has no choice in the matter. It also doesnt help when that owner's son gets involved as well.
You are talking to a troll or a child. It’s sort of interesting and sort of infuriating when someone chooses to be so uninformed and have such terrible opinions on the internet. These last 2 pages have been like watching a child pull a bookcase on top of himself. Just a slow motion train wreck.
bro u just wasting time trying to convince salvy. manchild just need to b ignored, they won't b convinced otherwise.
I do not hate anyone, not happy with Harden, and don't like Tillman. And your wrong on rich people.......the UBER rich borrow and leverage.......STUPID ones burn their cash.....by buying crap....those are the ones that don't stay rich long. DD
