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James Harden's Brooklyn Nets

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by jerryclark, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. riko

    riko Member

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    Well shatters the narrative that he is selfish and not willing to Sacrifice
     
  2. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    you did you said he playing different

    no he's just playing with legit superstars unlike before

    he always played with what the defense and teammates offer him
     
  3. vator

    vator Member

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    So basically Harden passes more when he has two other 30 ppg scorers on the floor with him and shoots more when one or more miss a game. Go figure. Somebody has to pass the damn ball right? He’s been entrusted to determine what is best for the team because he’s that good. Nobody has the ball more than he does. He’s still ball dominant and he’s still running iso plays on the ball going one on one with his defender. They run more actions off the ball to get guys open than we did here, but they have guys who are good at that. We had mostly stationary spot shooting guys that were more efficient with their feet set.
     
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  4. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    well apparently that was GM and coach harden's fault too
     
  5. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    None of the things you are talking about have any importantance when concerning “watch ability” The PLAYS he is running are the exact same ones that he ran in Houston. The options are different so he makes different reads. He is not a differnt player, exact same one. But also the options out of said plays are options he has taken many many MANY times in Houston. The frequency is changed according to the roster. He is scoring and assisting the exact same ways he has in Houston. No one who has ever watched Harden consistnetly will ever tell you that he's a different player or that he's suddenly become watchable. He's in a bigger market and there are less FTs, that's it. Done. It has nothing to do with what you have been talking about.
     
  6. vator

    vator Member

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    Tucker and House running off of screens and pulling up sounds like winning ball to me.
     
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  7. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Yes, Harden still leads league in ISOs per game. Just not nearly as much of a statistical outlier as it has been in last 3 seasons.

    SeasonISOs per game (plus ISOs for next three players)
    2021 6.4 (5.9, 4.9, 4.6)
    2020 14.1 (7.4, 4.8, 4.5)
    2019 16.4 (5.6, 4.9, 4.7)
    2018 10.0 (6.4, 5.2, 5.1)
    2017 6.8 (6.4, 5.3, 5.1)
    2016 6.9 (5.5, 4.7, 4.7)
     
  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    That's funny because he could ALWAYS DO BOTH and was asked to do both. So yes it is subtle in this regard. He literally just downshifted scoring and up ticked his assists. Its not a matter of him changing the way he plays basketball, its a matter of him having more weapons to utilize due to a different roster. He still has the ball in his hands and he still runs the show. The shift is not surprising to anyone who has watched Harden worth a damn. Its also not something hasnt done before in Houston. See 2016-2017. He averaged 11.2 assists in 2016-2017. He's never averaged less than 7 assists since 2014. Nothing has changed with Harden. He's being his same old optimal self. And no nothing has changed with his game aesthetically either except the free throws and he's wearing a Brooklyn Jersey.
     
  9. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    So he's the exact same player he always has been, got it. See 2016-2017.
     
  10. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    He is the same player, except he is now making different reads due to being on a different team with different teammates, not taking (and missing) as many shots without any teammate involvement on the play, not spending as much time parked on the free throw line, doing more to get his teammates good shots, and consequentially the way he plays is more enjoyable to a broader range of NBA fans.

    If his teammates were exactly the same, but just in a different city, he'd probably play the same way he has been playing. And people's opinion of him would be about the same (except for Nets fans, for the obvious reasons).
     
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  11. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    Backtrack what? LOL Shut up dude.....Harden is great until he decides not to be. Often that is in the playoffs its a known fact. I Am not making a prediction just going on what he has shown. Nothing has changed for the Houston Nets. Rookie head coach Nash/MDA teams gonna MDA until the playoffs. We've seen this all before.
     
  12. Loneyroy7

    Loneyroy7 Member

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    Yeah we've all seen an MDA team with James Harden + KD and Kyrie, right?

    Clown.
     
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  13. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Right. But the factors such as making or missing a lot, doesnt make him more or less watchable. He has similar EFG% to his contemporaries like say Kyrie or Lillard who get heralded as some of the most fun players to watch. He has always done a lot to get his teammates good shots, that's something people would already have known had they watched him in Houston. He gets dudes shots like these all the time. Aesthetically its the same. Harden still had this reputation as a boring player in 2016-2017 even when he led the league in assists. They did not. The only point that has merit imo are the FTs and his market. That's it like I have been saying. Nothing else is particularly new or surprising for anyone who has ever watched him on a consistent basis.
     
  14. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    He is likely to do better with KD and Irving but he always fades. If he did, we would have won one a title. It was right there for the taking. Even after team cancer Harden drove everybody away from a team he didn't even want to be on. Then cries "the guys aren't good" but if someone tells him anything he slapping CP3 hand away. That's why he won't win. He's a bad teammate in the trenches. McHale called it.
     
  15. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    His assists went up just a tick. 18-19% of his plays were assists last two seasons. This season, 33%. 70% of his plays ended in a shot attempt or FT trip last two seasons. This season, 55%.

    You may consider that shift "subtle", but for the vast majority of NBA viewers it is not. There is a big difference in watching a player dribble the ball for 10 seconds and then take a shot, versus watching a player dribble the ball for 10 seconds and find an open teammate. That's not to say one is a better play than the other in an objective sense, it very well may not be, but most of us see those two plays differently. So the balance of shots versus assists might seem like minutiae to some people here who are predisposed to loving whatever Harden does, but for the general audience that balance makes a big difference on their perception of him.
     
  16. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    We will see huh? lol There's a lot of ball to be played. Hopefully the big three won't be tired by playoff time. I guess I Am a clown, as Master Splinter would say "I made another funny" hahahaha You guys hate reality because the numbers won't tell you the future. Just the the probability. The probability of them winning it all is higher than it was here but will they do it?
     
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  17. riko

    riko Member

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    Outside of of KD and Lebron doubt there is a better overall offensive player in the world then Harden.
     
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  18. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    Hopefully he gets a ring. He don't need that Iverson legacy.
     
  19. Loneyroy7

    Loneyroy7 Member

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    The highest probability is you coming up with excuses every step of the way.
     
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  20. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    He's had the boring player label since before those two seasons. He's had the ball hog label even before that as well. Those percentages are minuscule in the grand scheme of things. The only ones that matter is the FTs tbh.

    He did both of those things in Houston. Its not about them being different. You consistently saw him doing both in Houston. Anyone who had watched him consistently in Houston would know he was making great passes night in and night out. The balance doesnt matter because the aesthetics are the exact same. If you thought he was fun before, you would think he is fun now. If you thought he was boring before, you should now. There is no change except the FTs and the market.
     

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