1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

James Harden's Brooklyn Nets

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by jerryclark, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    22,873
    Likes Received:
    32,142
    See....Daryl could have salvaged this situation if that dumb idiot and his son had just stayed out of it.
     
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,037
    Likes Received:
    15,519
    I'm using game score because it is a readily available way of measuring how good a game a player had in terms of box score stats.

    That game against the Warriors was perhaps the most memorable game he had as a Rocket. It essentially put him on top of everyone's MVP leader board that year (as I remember). It's not like people were dismissing it, in contrast to last night's game.
     
  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,800
    Likes Received:
    115,160
    It was already salvaged. Morey had told Harden that he didn't think the Westbrook deal would go through and Harden was fine with it.

    The problem wasn't just that the Westbrook deal was made, it was that Tilman insisted on it being complete and so the Rockets paid an enormous price that the GM never would have done otherwise.

    Not only did that deal cost us Paul, but it prevented us from having draft collateral to trade for better pieces to put around Harden. What kind of player could the Rockets have gotten to add to Paul and Harden for 2 #1 picks and 2 draft swaps?

    Marcus Morris? Jordan Clarkson? Luke Kennard? Covington without losing Capela?
     
    YOLO, MettaWorldPete, Deuce and 4 others like this.
  5. vator

    vator Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,574
    Likes Received:
    13,918
    Ok you’re clearly missing the point. You’re using game scores and he’s had plenty of games similar to last night stats wise with slightly lower game scores. Used this one to prove that point. In contrast, the majority of which were not talked about. This was a memorable game against a high profile team so of course people talked about it, but there was often not a peep said on national shows if he dropped a game like that and not much was even said on this board after a 30 and 10 game. 30 points and 10 assists is not an amazing game for James Harden. Slightly above average. I really don’t believe much would have been made about this 38 and 11 game against the Suns had he done it in a Rockets uniform. Too many instances in the past prove this.
     
  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,800
    Likes Received:
    115,160
    "Who knew, but it turns out that James Harden isn't selfish and isn't a system player. It turns out that James Harden is capable of doing anything on a basketball court. It turns out that he is the best offensive player since Wilt. He has completely changed the story around him and is an all time great."

    [​IMG]
     
  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    22,873
    Likes Received:
    32,142
    Or Christian woods while still getting Covington through Capela.
     
    MettaWorldPete and Nook like this.
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,800
    Likes Received:
    115,160
    Good point

    Paul/Harden/Covington/Tucker/Wood
     
    MettaWorldPete, Deuce and HP3 like this.
  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    I had never thought of it like that makes me even sadder.

    Looking at what Minny got Houston offered a much better deal.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  11. vator

    vator Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,574
    Likes Received:
    13,918
    Can we all just stop trying to pretend like Chris Paul was good his 2nd year? This is also maddening. Folks remember the one good year and block the bad one from memory. Like when you reminisce about an ex and only remember the good things and nothing about why you dumped her.

    The board was almost universally in agreement that CP3 was washed and his contract was bad. Westbrook trade was an overpay and didn’t work out obviously to say the least, but nobody thought we could “run it back” again without significant changes. Jimmy Butler choosing Miami essentially signaled the end of that pairing. Only a diehard Chris Paul fan thought he was still capable of being the 2nd star on a championship team after watching him get shut down on the perimeter by Kevon Looney when the previous year he feasted on those types of matchups.
     
    #2371 vator, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
    francis 4 prez and KingCheetah like this.
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,800
    Likes Received:
    115,160
    Yes, the Rockets demise was a perfect storm.

    A new owner that did not spend money into the tax and let players Ariza go..... and wanted a toxic work environment.

    A GM that was forced to trade for Westbrook and was tired of working for the owner....... so the GM leaves.

    The owner would not bring in Ty Lue.... which upset Harden and Westbrook.

    Westbrook gets injured in the bubble........

    The owner doesn't pay MDA, so he wants out and leaves.....

    A over 30 year old super star that looks at a roster that was destroyed by the Lakers, and has lost the two people he was closest with (GM/Coach)... coupled with an owner that didn't sign Lue and .......... the super star wants out of town.

    Had things been done just a little different and the Rockets would likely still have Harden, would have Paul, would likely have Covington, Tucker and Wood.... would that beat LAL? I don't know, but it would likely be pretty damn close.... The Rockets would be an elite defense with Paul/Harden/Covington/Tucker/Wood....... they would be a bigger team, they would rebound well....... and the Rockets would still have a chance to TRADE for other players as well, as getting Wood wouldn't have cost what getting Westbrook did.

    Harden would still be carrying a bigger load as a scorer than he does in NJ.... but that defense would at worst be top 3.
     
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Stop you gonna make me cry.:(
     
    MettaWorldPete likes this.
  14. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,668
    Likes Received:
    10,588
    Do you think we would have made the Capela for Covington trade if we didn't trade for Westbrook?
     
    MettaWorldPete likes this.
  15. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    14,767
    Likes Received:
    7,410
    Clint is the much much better fit with that team than Wood. Wood doesn't even come close to Clint on the defensive end. But my God man imagine if Tilman wasn't a cheap stupid **** what could have been..

    CP
    James
    Cov
    PJ
    Clint
    Trev
    EG
    Rivers
    Green
    House

    Plus whatever else Morey does

    That team wins titles man. Elite defense and offense all over.
     
    MettaWorldPete, HP3 and jiggyfly like this.
  16. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,668
    Likes Received:
    10,588
    This guy must have been one of the douche bags that posted here.
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,037
    Likes Received:
    15,519
    I don't think you can compare individual game performances and the media reaction to them in isolation like that. It's hugely relevant that Harden recently switched to a new team, has adopted a different role than what he's had in Houston (no longer even top 2 in scoring on the team, after being the leading scorer every year as a Rocket), has become incredibly efficient posting 50/40/90 efficiency numbers plus career high assist/turnover ratio. All of that context matters in understanding why people respond as they do to a regular season game, even while they may have responded differently if he did the same thing in a random game two years ago under different circumstances.

    In that GSW game you alluded to, there was a huge bump in his MVP stock in large part because of the circumstances leading up to that game. Context can't be ignored.
     
  18. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    2,498
    Likes Received:
    3,072
    Maybe they will be successful and win a championship, or maybe he fizzles out in the playoffs again. The media is loving him now, but under perform in the playoffs and the NY media will let you have it. If defense ends up being the reason they don't win it all, they will blame Harden for losing their defensive depth.
     
  19. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    21,310
    Likes Received:
    11,755
    defensive depth? LOL
     
    rockbox likes this.
  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,659
    Likes Received:
    48,751
    #FatSuit
     
    jiggyfly likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now