They have 3 guys who think they should be the one who gets to be protected on defense and handle the corner 3 man, not many great individual stoppers, also all new players, also the ability to score a zillion points anyway. I know Harden will bear the brunt of criticism, but he wasn't there last night, and like we've known he's been an average to above average defender since 2016-17 - along with Durant he's probably the only current Net who can make that claim. Shamet/Harris/Irving are crud, or at least have crud defenisive stats. Jordan is as washy washed as it gets. Green maybe is capable of being ok. Don't know much about Tim cabaret or whatever. Too bad they lost David Nwaba, future DPOY. If they trade us Durant they can have him back.
We have seen Harden turn the defense on during the playoffs so I'm not super worried about him on defense. He CAN be good defensively. I'm more worried about Kyrie and their general lack of size. DJ is a little slow footed these days and they really don't have a backup for him. At the moment Durant and DJ have to deal with Lebron and AD. Hard to stay out of foul trouble.
I think if those Andre Drummond rumors are true. That will be really REALLY good for them. Also they have a "Claxton" I think his name was. I know nothing about dude except from 2K loooool. Maybe he will be good as a big.
A combination of 1, 2, and 3. Hilarious to hear them for rumors involving JJ Reddick...not sure that's what they need but I'm hoping they trade assets for him. This is just not a problem that can be fixed in one season and I don't think it is likely Cleveland will be giving them Drummond for nothing, he's an expiring contract so I imagine there is a market for him. I guess if Cleveland decides not to trade him and embraces a tank there might be a chance there but... I think he still has value on an expiring contract for half of a season and they'll get something back for him.
The only plus defender on the Nets currently is kevin durant. He isn't as good defensively as he was in GS, but he's still good at rim protection and switching onto the perimeter. Harden was sometimes an average or better defender the last 3-4 years with the rockets because the system he was in was designed to cover his weaknesses. The rockets employed a switched everything defense and always hid Harden on the least perimeter threatening opponent. It covered Hardens weaknesses, such as getting over screens, moving his feet and awarenesses - while maximizing his strengths, such as defend the post and his underrated ability to steal/strip the ball. The switch everything defense also help Harden stay engaged and aware (move/cover less area), noticeably eliminating his propensity to lose weakside and backdoor cutters. When engaged (2017-18) Harden has all the physical tools (size, length, strength, speed) to be a good defender. Kyrie is a below average defender and like Harden is accustomed to guarding the least threatening perimeter player. Unlike Harden, kyrie cannot defend larger players, nor is he a good defender when engaged/determined. Including Harris, the Nets will have three players accustomed to guarding the slowest and least threatening guard or forward. Harris has size and effort but is not capable of defending guards on ball. Harden has strength and decent athleticism but is not good at following through screens, cutters. Average or worst at guarding guards on ball and average or better at guarding the paint. Kyrie is just average or worst defensively. At his best he isn't terrible guarding opposing pgs. It's been reported the Nets are signing Iman shumpert. In his prime he was an excellent perimeter defender. The Nets desperately need elite wing defense but shumpert is a huge question mark. Reported possibilities of javalle or drummond buy-outs/signings/trade should also help them cover the other huge hole in their defense.
Does anyone remember what type of defense we ran in 2014-2015? I hear a lot about the switching "covering" for Harden's weakness but we had a top 10 defense in 2014-2015.
That team had the ALL-NBA version of Dwight Howard who was multiple time defensive player of the year. They also had Pat Bev and Ariza to cover the perimeter! And if you were on the forum those years... the major criticism of Harden was his atrocious defense. Not only was he routinely getting backdoor, his effort was terrible. There wasn't just one Harden defensive MVP video made on the forum at that time (13-16). Edit: Regarding defensive scheme: AFAIR in 2014-15 Rockets like every other team rarely switched or trapped pick and rolls. They utilized ICE (popularize by thibs) and funneled pick roll handlers into the paint which was guarded by the center. Teams didn't really start switching and trapping high pnr (since there was no need) until Curry's popularize//revolutionalize shooting thees of the dribble in 14-16. Prior to that guards usually stayed on their man throughout the possession, following them through screens on and off ball.
Honestly, a combination of all 5, but I'd add in a 6th - "We have KD/Kyrie/Harden." No matter how badly you play defense, you'll still have a chance to win because you have those 3 dudes.
What's clear is how much the Nets need Harden to be dominant, whether it's playmaking, scoring, or just dictating the pace of the game in order for them to have any chance at winning it all with their roster's defensive deficiencies. Which could bode well for James legacy-wise, if they are able to pull it off.
I’ve watched every Nets game since the trade, and I agree with pretty much all the other posters that its some combo of 1, 2, 3, and 5. KD is theoretically their best defender but he looks like he’s coasting the vast majority of the time. Just a badly constructed roster with a lot of guys giving less than 100% and bad coaching. I’m going to keep watching their games because im curious to see now the season goes for them and I enjoy watching Harden, but its simply ****ing pathetic to watch as a team on D. Way less enjoyable than a NBA game should be. I’m not one of those “we’re not as good but I’m happier because the Rockets are more aesthetic now” people but I think the current Nets and Rockets rosters have the same odds of winning the championship (zero) and under those circumstances I find the Rockets far more enjoyable to watch.
So I was looking at the defensive numbers from 2012-2015 as far as his Defensive RAPTOR and DRPM was concerned in those times. He was actually only a slight negative on defense. Its actually pretty comparable to some of his contemporaries. But you know defensive metrics are pretty flawed so ymmv. But I donno could it be that how bad of a defender he actually is overblown? Like obviously you are gonna need 2- way players around him for a good defense but I feel like that's true with pretty much any superstar right? As far as right now though, wether its drop or switch(he's admittedly better at this) he's not giving effort right now and he looks bad on that end. But he's also incredibly smart and I think that gets taken for granted when talking about him as a defender. I feel like what gets lost in why we swtich everything is because we needed to do it for the Warriors. And if you listen to Chris Paul on JJ Reddick's podcast he says exactly this. Another reason is because a switching defense is actually really effective. It flattens out people's actions and forces them to Iso or post up. Which is why we still do it here with out small ball lineup. Thank you for this info. I was wondering if I could remember what kind of coverage we ran and Dwight still being pretty good on defense in 2012-2015 definitely helps. Harden probably should have gone to Philly but the buy out will probably help the Nets we will see.
Get over it. He was with us for 8 and a half years and we were mostly successful. He also didn't have the greatest of teammates in most seasons. We would have won a ring in any other decades, we just happened to come up against one of the best teams of all time on multiple occasions.
As I said in an earlier post. That's what people don't appreciate about Harden. He can tell when the game is getting out of hand and he'll try to slow it down. If Harden was playing last night, they wouldn't have lost that game. Harden has actually been playing good defense for Nets. You can tell he's been trying here and there on his perimeter defense. His post defense shouldn't come into question. He's always good there.
You're right about switching in regards to the Warriors and CP3's comments. The part I wrote about Harden being more engaged was partly due to CP3's comments. I also agree that switching defense IS really effective, especially if you have the right personnel. I'm not saying the Rockets switching strategy was due strictly to cover Harden's weakness. Im saying that it was one of the fortunate by product. That defense was the most ideal for defending the Warriors/modern NBA... especially with those rockets roster. I know Capela gets a lot of criticism for his play vs the warriors, but dude was one of the best pnr big defender in the league. With the advent of players shooting volume threes off the high pnr, switching defense is probably the best defense IF you have a Capela/Draymond etc. Otherwise your stuck with leaving a Dame, Curry, Irving, Harden, Kemba, Trae, to shoot a wide open three OR trapping and leaving your defense to defend 3v4. Other strategies like hedging and recovering, following/fighting over, etc require better defensive personnel (like Dort/Bev/Smart) and more difficult defensive execution/rotation. However... If you don't have a Capela/AD/2018 Looney/ and switch then youre stuck with a situation like Adams/Kanter/Gobert/Jokic/ guarding Harden 1v1 at the 3 point line. In terms of his reputation as a defender being overblown, perhaps that is true for the past few seasons, but prior to 2017 it's safe to say he was widely regarded as one of the worst defender in the league. It wasn't a question of capability, but rather focus and EFFORT. Dude simply didn't try a lot of times. I In regards to the Nets. Harden isn't the sole cause for the nets being terrible defensively. Their lack of stoppers on the perimeter and interior is the problem. Kyrie, Harden and Harris are all average or below average defenders. If your are constantly being assigned to cover the weakest offensive threat, you're likely not a plus defender.
The reason they lost that last night is that they allowed about 80 points in the paint. I have no clue why Nash just let it happen. He just left Jordan on the bench the entire 2nd half. Even if Jordan isn't the best defender, he can still get stops in the paint (he's 6ft 11 and 265lbs). Running a small ball lineup is going to end in disaster against players like Beal and Westbrook.
I'm guessing (since i didn't watch that game) that Nash didn't want Jordan to be on the perimeter guarding Beal/Westbrook. Were the nets switching the high pnr or trapping it or hedging it or sinking down? If they were switching, that leaves jordan at the mercy of Beal/Westbrook iso, If they were trapping that leaves a 3v4 (not a terrible prospect considering). If they were having Jordan sink down to protect the paint, that leaves the open mid-range and three for Beal/Westbrook depending on how well their defenders fight past the screen. Edit: I saw some posts about Nash not calling timeouts late in the game... No clue if thats a good or bad coaching move, but the motivation behind that is - Nash as a player really disliked it apparently.
lol where have we heard that before. KD better cover for harden's deficiencies mid playoffs. And Kyrie...uhh team can hope he covers for himself. Still hope they win one, but only one if they're not facing the Rockets in the finals.
