oh rlly kindly point out exactly which trade transaction out of the roughly 2 dozen since tilfuk arrived did he take back more annual salary than he sent out. i shall be forever grateful if you can identify for us just one
Thought I'd ask because I was interested but not interested enough to search through old threads. That's fine.
In the Roco trade we sent out 2 years at $13mm in exchange for 3 years at roughly $14mm and had to pick up nearly $5mm of Ariza's salary to Detroit to do it. The Russ trade added substantially more long term salary (not great). Not a trade, but we extended Gordon when we really didn't need to (also not great). If we wanted Allen this season we easily could have done it and avoided the tax. It's likely as simple as not wanting to pay him big money this summer because he wouldn't fit the plans and not thinking there would be a better offer for him at the deadline or in a sign and trade than the 2022 unprotected first from Milwaukee. And to expand on those moves, the real mid 2000s Sarver move would have been to stop at trading Ariza to Detroit and not take back Wood at all. There's a borderline fanaticism around here to assume any move we make going forward is going to be terrible and the sole reason for the move is to avoid paying the tax and/or cutting costs, which CF in aggregate also believes no other owner would do.
russ trade not applicable, as i said "annual salary" and CP3 makes more than russ regarding wood, it was initially an outright FA signing at $9M/yr over 3yrs. reportedly tilbitch balked and stalled on the terms, then the market changed as other FA forwards were getting huge deals and tilbitch had to revise the contract upwards a bunch. that's how it eventually got re-configured into a S&T w/ DET. but before this, tilbitch's initial trade transaction was just a pure salary dump of roco's contract to open up cap space
Nah. Same methodology applies here. If you can honestly say to yourselves you won’t want to save money as a business and not spend if you don’t have to then sure. But my feeling is most people are deceiving themselves into something they can’t or won’t do themselves. The sentiment on Taxes and penalties are the same across the board in that most people wouldn’t pay them if they didn’t have to and if you say you like taxes then you wouldn’t cheer everytime a politician lowers your taxes or gives you breaks and incentives. Most owners across the league wouldn’t go over the luxury tax. Why would you blame someone for making a business decision that prevents them from paying unnecessary penalties? Also is there a legitimate study out there correlating wins and championships with teams paying the luxury tax? So nah. I don’t buy it.
Where is the reporting for any of this? And your point on the Russ deal is just dumb and wrong. Russ's salary each year was effectively the same. The average annual salary is for sure higher, and the amount of guaranteed money was substantially higher. The trade was an extremely poor decision but it was the opposite of the type of move you'd make to try to spend less money overall on your team.
Public obligations? What does this mean? That businesses aren’t self interested entities? You think NBA franchises are supposed to be altruistic? At the end of the day it’s still about dollars and cents. The point is people want to save dollars whether it’s individuals or businesses. This isn’t anything alien and shouldn’t be shocking to you. Why chastise and criticize someone for being cheap if you do the same thing on a smaller scale whether it’s running your own small business or paying your personal income taxes. And is there data that teams that pay the luxury tax are guaranteed a championship or have enjoyed greater post season success than teams under? I’m curious to see that data.
Lots of conjecture on this site. Lots of people criticizing and pointing fingers at ownership who won’t do what they preach themselves lol. And most of all aren't privy to all the information and discussions to make a valid assessment.
1) reported by @Nook 2) your entire premise is dumb. this is an owner who has forced his GM's to dump salary every which way possible dozens of times solely in order to avoid the lux tax. it's been an annual ritual leading up to and at every trade deadline. and even in the russ trade you cite, he got russ to agree to deferred paychecks on his salary lol
Folks who don’t pay attention nearly enough are always the ones trying to tell someone else they’re wrong. It’s pathetic
I'm not going to say the reporting you are citing here is right or wrong but there are obviously a lot of fraudulent insiders on here and people also believe a dude named Q on the internet about a lot of stuff because it matches what they want to believe (not familiar enough with anything that Nook has broken that has materialized and not materialized to have an opinion either way, so he could be 100% right). People will be more inclined to believe what they want which was why I asked YOLO about his original thoughts on the Wall deal and Roco series of transactions when he was appealing to his track record. Occam's razor and lack of any actual media reporting to the contrary would lead me to thinking Wood's side was the one who reneged on the original deal, but either way, even if Tilman got too cute negotiating he still paid up to get him. If Tilman was literally just trying to get to 90% of the cap and pay as little as possible without any regards to the basketball side of it he could have easily done that when James first requested his trade and just ripped everything down then. If we wanted Allen on our roster for this season it's almost a certainty that could have been done while avoiding the tax. Also, if you want to complain about not paying the tax the last two years' that's fine, but owners will almost never go over the line for a rebuilding team, which is what we are now.
if you aren’t even familiar with nook’s posting history here then probably better to just defer to those who’ve already been here decades and know what they are talking about
I've seen plenty of Nook's posts and they usually seem reasonable, just not any story broken. I lurked on here for years before I signed up, though def not since 2000, and more like dropping by when big stuff was going on rather than having a continuous feel of every post every day. I'm not saying it's impossible that's right and that Tilman got too cute negotiating, but the end result is that he did pay it and even more.
Are you really asking this? Of course we did. Allen and Prince fill two huge holes on our team and we traded them both for Milwaukee's pick which will be one of the worst.
Allen got 23pts, 18reb, 5blk today Imagine if we kept him. He'd fit right in although it would take Boogie's minutes away who is probably our worst rotation player.
For the love of god, Christian Wood is purely a C. He is not a forward. JA would not get significant minutes here, and you don’t crap on Boogie after he chooses to sign here for the minimum. Relationships with agents matter.
