good points but basically every team trading for harden is in the same boat regarding draft picks. None of the picks that teams can offer you are going to be great. However if you are Houston you can ask for some of the picks to be post 2 years that way if harden leaves Boston the team left behind is basically Tatum and no one else. same with philly, after this year embiid has 2 years left on his deal and there’s no guarantee he stays at all. If you can get 1 of those picks to be that season there’s a chance he leaves Philly and Philly has a 34 almost 35 year old harden and not much else. there’s many ways Houston can go and we will have to see how you guys play it out. I think the least realistic path is they just let him leave for nothing, I not only think that’s a huge mistake, I also don’t see it happening. Time will tell
yup...Sixers fans been watching this dude play for several years, and many of them know what’s up his lack of shooting is a huge problem they’re 4-1 against a weak schedule, and even with that schedule, they’re still ranked 22nd in offensive efficiency they will get bottled up in the postseason
In that scenario, we wouldn't get "nothing" if Harden left. We'd get a max salary slot that would free up and could be used on another player. We'd also get 2 years of MVP-caliber play on the court prior to him leaving. I'd take cap space and 2 years of peak-James Harden over a trade that brings back a fringe all star and some distant future picks.
a max salary is 100% hope. The Knicks have had hope for 30 years. Multiple other teams have had hope for years. Good luck with that hope lol. I’m sure people will be rushing to play for tillman. It’s 100% nothing. At best you can take on bad contract for draft assets which is cool but then just get ready for the long game
Boston is in a tough spot if you trade Brown and Smart you’re left with little depth outside of Tatum and Harden. If Kemba was fully healthy maybe Ainge pushes his chips in for James. At least then you could also play the Heat and Celtics against each other for a trade. I like this trade idea better than the other 3 options. Wait until the trade deadline and see how desperate Boston is.
There are many trade threads already. For this one, can we stick to which player deal you think is the best and why? Of course, no one wants to trade Harden if he decides to stay, but this thread is working on the assumption that he won't decide to stay and that they already agreed to trade him by a certain date. Losing Harden for nothing sucks too much because 1) OKC owns 4 future Rockets 1st round picks and 2) you decrease the team total salary by $30M because you're operating under the cap instead of over. So this thread is on what's the best alternative, and that's probably Brown, even without Smart. Boston has 3 or 4 young players with promise that would make a Brown trade more attractive. After souring on Simmons, I'm souring on Siakam too. Is Siakam still depressed like he said he was during the bubble? His play has been uninspiring.
Agreed. I think Murray in our 5-out system would thrive. MPJ could be next KD if his back holds up. This is the only trade I see where we have a chance at getting potentially equal value in a couple of years.
At this point in MPJ’s career KD had averaged 30 and was working on a second scoring title. Without the back history.
For what it's worth, Nate Duncan thinks that this is the apex of MPJ's trade value and doesn't think he'll continue on a star trajectory.
What's not based on hope? Jaylon Brown and low picks are a sure thing? You can obviously sign free agents with cap space. Or you can use that space to make trades work. Certainly not a sure thing but that gives you a chance. Having a middle of the pack team and no way to get better gives you no chance. How did the nets land KD and Kyrie? By having cap space for two max deals. How many times has Pat Riley used his cap space to make a big deal happen? If you're not going to try just because it didn't work for the Knicks then you might as well fold the franchise because they've screwed up trades, free agency and the draft. You're a Celtic fan, you should be aware that Boston used cap space to make the Hayward and Kyrie deals happen. Didn't work out for you but that doesnt mean that it wont work for others. As I've said, being middle of the pack isn't any way to rebuild. You let Harden and Wall's contract expire then that's almost $100m off the books. If Stone can't rebuild with that and then he's not going to build a contender anyway.
Yep..... it's pretty clear a lot of posters don't actually watch Simmons. Simmons definitely has a glaring shooting weakness, but surround him with shooters and scorers is a pretty straightforward fix. The whole Simmons peaked thing is weird to me, like he couldn't become a better playmaker and defender? It's all about shooting?
Yeah, GSW are really the only team that have desirable picks. It will be interesting to see what they do. Most teams would just start a rebuild with Wiseman and two likely lottery picks next year. I think the Warriors feel enough loyalty for Klay and Steph that they will try to give them another chance rather than rebuilding completely. In any trade for Harden, I'm sure the other team would attempt to get him to extend. If not, you take your two year run at a title. If you dont get it then you're setup for a rebuild. In Boston's case, Hardens $50m comes off the books and you move Tatum for assets. It's pretty much what Ainge did before, just don't make the same mistakes. You don't get many chances at a title. If one comes along then you take it. Toronto only got one year out of Leonard but it was worth it. What you don't want to do is to remain good but not great.
I've stated before that I don't hate keeping angry fat Harden against his will for 2 seasons in normal circumstances and hope he doesn't pull a KD in OKC. That stated, doesn't OKC owning 4 FRP from HOU make a difference in that math for you? Also, you're a cap expert or somewhat expert right? It's fair to assume Wall will opt in the year Harden leaves. With cap holds, can the Rockets even field a full team with a max slot to use that year? I don't know. I just don't see it as a viable option to let him go for nothing and operate under the cap instead of over when there are few 1st round picks in the future.
If you let Harden walk then you also let Wall walk. That's $97m off the books. There's other players expiring in that same timeframe so you could have massive cap space if you like. Once Wall expires, if we wanted, Gordon could be the only contract of any size on the roster. That would be over $100m in cap space that you could use. That's the complete rebuild route. You start over. We dont actually owe OKC 4 firsts. We owe OKC two first rounders plus the right to swap 2 more. One of those first round swaps is this year so it wouldnt have any effect on our drafts after Harden leaves. We owe the the 2024 and 2026 picks We have a pick in 2025, it will just be the lower of our pick or OKC's. So you have the option to let everyone walk after 2023 and end up with $100m in cap space. Or maybe you keep some players and reduce the cap space some. It would just depend on who you had at the time and how you felt about them going forward. Wood would be the obvious candidate to bring back. Who knows, maybe we could use all that 2023 cap space to rebuild and then the OKC swap in 2025 is moot because we are better than them. Bottom line, if we trade Harden then we get much worse. I'd much rather take my chances with Harden for two more years and hope he extends. If not, then you have an obvious rebuild plan that could be quick. Paying a guy that can't shoot $30m or hoping that Jalen Brown turns into a top 10 player doesn't do it for me.
It’s not just a shooting issue. Watching him he is unplayable in a half court set right now. Most of the time Milton and Curry are initiating the offense not Simmons. Even rondo wasn’t like that. Hes relegated to being in the dunkers spot. He finds teammates early in the shot clock not by utilizing dribble moves or PNR. He leaves a lot to be desired in the half court set aside from shooting. My ideal scenario, if Harden is hell bent on leaving is a three team with philly and GSW. PHI out: simmons, thybulle, every pick they’ve got. PHI in: harden GSW out: Wiseman, Oubre, Poole, they’re first round pick this year, minny pick, additional draft assets if they insist on Wiggins instead of oubre GSW in: Simmons Thybulle Hou out: Harden Hou in: wiseman Oubre Poole all philly picks, gsw pick this year (okc gets it if it’s outside the top 20) minny pick I’m not sure if GSW gives up potentially wiseman and two top 5 picks unless they had the chance to drop Wiggins. If that was required I’d do it though for an amazing chance at a rebuild. You’d have a core of wiseman and Wood with immediate likely 2 top 10 picks and if Embiid flames out more multiple lotto picks. You can offload wall Gordon and tuckers contracts when they rehab some value and make out with tons of high picks.
