Unless Harden wins a championship he is never getting into the top 20. All the guys above him have championships on their belts, not a collection of choke jobs in the playoffs. He will be remembered as a guys like george gervin, karl malone, etc etc, great players, for whatever excuse you want to insert here, never carried a team to the promised land.
harden is multiple tiers above gervin and on the cusp of the top 20 already based on win shares per 48, bpm and career vorp trajectory. You cant have guys like malone and barkley in the top 20 when they dont have a ring, and harden has from 2015-2020 had a better 5 year run than either of them.. which included 4 top 2 mvp finishes
harden has the 12th highest postseason box/plus minus of all time, hardens postseason struggles are greatly exagerrated
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/bpm_career.html ( 6th all-time career box plus minus) https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html ( already 23rd all-time in career vorp).. closing in on reggie miller and paul pierce https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career.html (8th all-time in career win shares per 48) https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/bpm_career_p.html ( 12th all-time in career PLAYOFF adjusted box plus minus).. hakeem is 10th all-time career playoff adjusted box-plus minus https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html ( 36th in career win shares).. closing in on drexler and jason kidd https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/obpm_career.html ( top 5 in nba history in career offensive box plus minus.. should pass curry this year)
Harden is one of the most prolific high-volume 3pt shooters of this generation. How many elimination series has he shot around 30% from the 3pt line?
yeah awesome stats, where is he ranked in the rings department? Have you seen any of those guys play? How do you explain that james scoring and shooting always goes down on the playoffs?
i said he would push barkley or malone out of the top 15 if he continued on this pace that he has been on the past 5 years. 538 player projectiors still has harden as an mvp candidate by age 36
Neither of those guys are in the top 15. You still didn't answer my question. Why is he always worst when it matters the most?
The stats are the stats and they will only increase going forward. You can continue to bring up hypothetical scenarios about showing up when it matters most. But harden has only lost 1 game 7 as a member of the rockets.
HAHAHA nothing in this post makes sense. The stats are the stats? WTF. You have no arguments. There's nothing hypothetical about someone stats on the playoffs, they speak for themselves. His stats always goes down on the playoffs, and he becomes an awesome 42.5% shooter and 33% 3 point shooter for his career, both below league averages. Great stats for the "all time best offensive player in the league". And by the way, you cant lose a game 7 if you don't make it that far.
12th all-time in career playoff box plus minus. Hakeem 10th. Harden is one 35 point game away from becoming the rockets all time leader in 35 point plus games in rockets PLAYOFF franchise history. Hakeem and harden both 34 such games
This is getting worst, you are really comparing Harden with The Dream? You are really delusional. Dream is a top 10 player all time, He carried 2 teams to championships. Erased the league mvp in the process. They don't even belong on the same conversation.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...all-time-player-rankings-nbas-top-50-revealed also keep in mind this list was created before hardens 2020 season( which may have been his best to date) This list is perfect other than Steph currys ranking on it. Curry has 2 elite seasons. And hasn’t played enough games or has to longevity to be a top 10 player ever. You can’t just use lies about “how he changed the game” when it was morey and hinkie who ushered in the rise of 3 over 2 analytics era
You are putting words in my mouth. All I said was hardens playoff struggles were exaggerated and you just assume things. I gave you the stats, make of them what you will
Karl Malone is definitely a top 20 all time great. Barkley and even Stockton are in the conversation. All three were good enough to win titles. John Stockton was a great player in pressure situations... had he played for Detroit or Chicago he would be remembered as a winner.
No offense, but one of the best things about Harden being gone is going to be not having to read people trying to justify how great Harden is with all of these advanced statistics that deal with entire seasons and series, and do a terrible job measuring key moments in huge games. It's not even debatable that he has had some insanely bad playoff stretches. He has, and that is what people remember because it is the most important. Period. It's true that he has never had a super team around him. It's also true that his horrendous stretches played a significant role in the team not getting where we all wanted it to. Instead people want to use these advanced stats to make a case that he's the offensive goat?? What a joke.
so if you don’t wanna use stats how else are we to judge players. Because the eye test lies a lot. The eye test would tell you Damian lillard is a better playoff performer than harden when in reality they are in two separate tiers.
