Admittedly, I have a hard time pinning down MPJs value, or where Denver sees itself in the development arch. In this scenario, I’m assuming they want to win now, which requires an immediate improvement to their defense and depth. Theis is one of the best front court defensive players in the league. House steps in as a versatile forward on a team very thin there. I think there is room for negotiation around the edges here, with a pick or prospect changing columns depending on how everyone values what they are getting. But if you are trying to win now, yes...I believe Theis and House would be an improvement over MPJ.
HAHAHAHAHAAHAA . This gotta be one of the least realistic trades i ever heard. So denver is giving up MPJ for Theis and House?. Try to apply some thinking next time you post something like this. for god sake, the amount of r****ded posts we have to read, i get we are all sad James wants out, but come on, just think a bit before posting.
im having one right now, how did you know? Im sorry if i came a bit harsh on you, but come on, the forum is full of this kind of posts, and its kinda crazy some of the suggestions you read. MPJ , if you are really optimistic could be tmacish in the sense he is big, skilled and smooth. If you are pesimistic about his development he could just be a role player, or a injury prone player . Nobody knows yet, but the potential to be a multiple time all star is there. If health helps, he should be really good. Theis is a finished product. A nice role player, no potential there and house... So his value right now is pretty high, as he is only 21 and just came of a good rookie season. IF and thats a big if, his back holds up, he could be awesome.
there is no way Denver would ever give up MPJ for Theis and House...there is no rationalization for them doing a trade that terrible
so that’s the part I don’t know. Of all the prospects mentioned in connection with Harden, MPJ is the one with the most variable value. I don’t know his projected health. I don’t know if he can do anything besides score. Bottom line, I see him as part of a package for Harden, not THE package for Harden. @ch44 mentioned using Jaylen Brown as a way to get MPJ to Houston...ie Brown to Denver. That seems perhaps more plausible for Denver, but insufficient for Houston. By implication, there’s a bunch of assets that should be coming with MPJ if Harden is going to Boston, otherwise we would just do the deal with Denver and exclude Boston. But when you look at Boston’s stockpile of assets, it’s just recent mid/late picks and their own future picks...hardly anything to write home about. So I was mostly just trying to see if anything worked between those 3 teams with having Brown and MPJ to Houston. I will say this though...regardless of what Denver does, their defense looks very shaky. I think losing Grant and playing MPJ more minutes is going to wreck their defense.
No worries man. Again, I just don’t know how to value MPJ. Too much I don’t know. what I do know is MPJ for Harden isn’t near enough. Not even close. MPJ has great potential. Harden is the best offensive player of all time. How do you reconcile that? My attempt may have fallen short, but it just illustrates the problem. I don’t expect to get “equal value” for Harden...such a thing doesn’t exist unless we get Lebron. But I need something, or somethings more substantial than one player’s potential. That’s the hard part. I continue to think the best deal is for a straight up trade between Houston and Denver, so long as both Murray and MPJ are included. If Murray isn’t in the deal, then Denver has to find a way to add more in value...I’m not eating Harris and Barton to get MPJ and a bunch of late 1st for Harden.
Michael Porter Jr. back injuries shortens careers. The amount of jumping and landing, in taking small jumps hots, or bigger jumps in Layups or Dunks. Tracy McGrady laying on the court, leaving on a stretcher, with back spasms, or unaligned spinal cord. Tracy McGrady really had a short All Star performance Level until 30 yrs old.
I don't think we are dealing with Denver. Murray is for sure a no go for them and MPJ might be movable , but are they sure they want harden? Their 2 all star are waay younger and both play with the ball, and we know how much harden does too. Harden is a walking playoff berth, but i don't think he is the greatest offensive player of all time ( ill take MJ and Durant over him) . His Value is also hard to figure. On one hand , he is super talented and durable, but also he is going to be 32 when his deal expires and he would require max money. He is built like a tank and doesn't really rely on athletism to do his game, but he has taken quite a punishment going to the line so often, and his nigh lifestyle will eventually catch up with him. Also, i think hes got an underrated first step, that may go away soon too. I like the Philly deal not only because we get all nba player that is young and signed long term but also because it kinda makes sense for them too. Embiid can play with Harden, as neither really runs the floor a lot. Also i can see philly in win now mode, how long is embiid health going to last? We on the other hand, have some shooters to suround Ben simmons and our only problem ( big time) will be moving Wall, but that may not be that bad if Wall looks good and healthy to start this season.
I think sometimes as fans we tend to think in longer spurts than management actually does. Just look at Hardens tenure. As far as real championship contention we’ve had 2 runs... Harden-Dwight-McHale Harden-CP3/Westbrook-Dantoni In both cases, rosters were completely overhauled, new staff brought in, etc, and each run lasted about 3 years. It’s nice to think about some young team growing together, bonding and winning it all, but that almost never happens. Most of the time maybe one guy emerges as elite, and the others are packaged together to get another elite player. What happens when Murray stalls out as one of those PGs that’s never quite good enough to make an all-star team, as happens regularly in the West? That is very likely his path. So if you had a chance at Harden but passed because of Murray, then Jokic demands a trade in a couple of years because the roster just couldn’t get over the hump. my main point is that superstars are worth their weight in gold, and they are extremely rare to boot. I don’t think it’s really possible to overpay for one. So if Denver says no to Murray, that’s fine, but it’s a mistake. Perennial MVP candidates are almost NEVER available in a trade...maybe 1 every 2-3 years. I’m not a Ben Simmons fan for all the predictable reasons. He doesn’t look like he’s improved over the last 3 years, and i don’t believe he’s a championship piece. His lack of a jumper can be hidden some during the regular season with a supporting cast that fits him better, but he will get exposed in the playoffs as defense ignore him on the perimeter.
There's more to that. Murray will never be as good as Harden, but he is likely to be a multiple time all star kind of guy. He loves playing with Jokic and they seem committed to the city. How many guys will you find that will be happy staying on a small market team like that? They are already contenders, and if MPJ actually develops well , they may have a real chance in 1 or 2 years. Ben simmons hasn't improved his shooting , that's true, but its not true that he hasn't improved. In 3 years he went from rookie of the year, to all NBA team, all NBA defensive team and all star. He is elite at almost everything except the shooting. Its true his game suffers on the playoffs, he will need to develop something, either a jumper, a floater or a hook shoot. But to be honest, James game also goes down on the playoffs. Maybe he chokes, maybe he doesn't get all the calls, maybe teams figure him out a bit better, but his game has always been worst in the playoffs than in the regular season.
he mentioned a hypothetical of Jaylen Brown being used as a way to get MPJ for the Rockets if Boston is set on trading for Harden...even in that hypothetical, the real target for the Rockets is MPJ this was also reported by the Denver Post a few days ago The Nuggets were one of numerous teams the Houston Rockets called to gauge interest about a potential James Harden trade. Those talks didn’t gain any traction, however, a league source told The Denver Post. Houston’s interest centered firmly on Nuggets small forward Michael Porter Jr., the source said. Those talks haven’t materialized into anything substantial. the Rockets would take MPJ, salary filler, and picks as MPJ would fulfill the role of the young player with star potential that they have been seeking...regardless of how bad their defense looks, they would never just give MPJ away for Theis and House
It’s relevant from the perspective that he’d be viewed as a disgruntled rental which theoretically further diminishes his trade value.
