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Pardon me...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    It's mostly a holdover from the British monarchy in terms of allowing a chief executive to grant clemency and in some ways seen as the executive check on the judicial.

    It was a pretty hot topic of debate at the Constitutional Convention but the check on a President abusing the pardon power was impeachment. We haven't really had such gross abuse of the power and at the writing of the Constitution the Presidency wasn't limited to two terms so the idea is that impeachment could be used to either remove a corrupt president or prevent him from running for future office.

    Here's a good piece:
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/07/25/the-pardon-power-and-original-intent/
     
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  2. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    So why do presidents have pardoning power in the first place?

    It starts, in part, with Alexander Hamilton, who articulated the rationale for presidential pardons in the Federalist Papers when he wrote in No. 74 that “without an easy access to exceptions in favor of unfortunate guilt, justice would wear a countenance too sanguinary and cruel.” So, as with so many things in the American civic structure, the idea is that the pardon provides checks and balances against the judiciary system; there has to be an out somewhere in the system.

    So it's intended as a rarely used relief for injustice, but like most things associated with the Executive Branch it has been an expanded power not originally conceived.

    san·gui·nar·y
    /ˈsaNGɡwəˌnerē/


    adjective
    ARCHAIC
    1. involving or causing much bloodshed.
      "they lost heavily in the sanguinary campaigns that followed"
     
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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    There is still a lot of debate on this but my understanding is that the general legal view is that a President cannot pardon themself.

    In the case of Trump even if he can that will not shield him from state charges.
     
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  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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  5. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Protection for what? A pardon requires some type of acknowledgment or reference to an offense committed, doesn’t it?
     
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  6. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    If that’s the rationale, how does it make sense to pardon before a case is even prosecuted? What is the argument for a preemptive pardon?
     
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  7. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    And don't forget... convicted murderers. A proof point to how far American politics has sunk since trump and how hypocritical republicans have become...

     
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  8. seemoreroyals

    seemoreroyals Member

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    I think he is going to at least try to pardon himself. To me it is an admittance of guilt on his part. To him it is an effort to keep his sorry behind out of prison so he can keep the grifting and chaos going. Those that are too blinded by his bs to know he is conning them will continue to rally and assemble in cheap red hats to pronounce their devout support of him. The con artist they adore is going to bask in the attention he is getting and proceed to be an anchor around Biden's next for as long as he is allowed to do so. Something needs to be done about this as the mad man continues to lead his followers deeper and deeper into the realm of craziness.
     
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  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    My guess is the House Dems just think that the next DOJ will have their hands full having to take over investigations that various DOJ departments were investigating, and it's very likely that Trump or the majority of his associates are hit with a slew of indictments that DOJ had been slow walking knowing that Trump would just pardon those offenses if they were already in the courts.

    I guess you can't pardon for crimes that aren't made aware yet so I would guess that this is what is going on at the moment. Everyone's quiet about charges coming for this reason. Especially in SDNY where all indications are that they are sitting on a slew of indictments.

    The House though just neutered themselves & their power after impeachment. They basically shut down in order to focus on the elections, and they nearly almost lost the House anyways. If they were smart they would have open investigations in the post election period so they can say they have an obligation to continue even though the previous administration is already out.
     
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    If he does pardon himself, he will spin it in a way to blame the Libtards, Rinos and Lamestream media being out to get him and treat it as a preemptive strike against the #fakecharges to come.
     
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  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Perhaps the thing that has taken the biggest hit since trump became president... America's moral standing in the world.

     
  12. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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  13. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    According to an article titled "Stockman gets 'gift' of clemency in the Houston Chronicle today.........Out of the 45 pardons and commutations Trump has granted so far 88% have aided someone with a personal tie to the President or furthered his political aims.


    Trump is out for Trump. Make no mistake about that you Trump lovers. I expect more people in his inner circle to be added to that list. The abuse of power runs deep when it comes to covering his as* or returning favors!
     
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  14. seemoreroyals

    seemoreroyals Member

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    Why of course. We would naive to expect anything else. It's hard to teach an old con new tricks.
     
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  15. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    Corporate shills gotta stick together, know what I’m sayin’
     
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  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Something seriously broken in our country...

     
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  17. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Because Nixon. There was no precedent for it before Ford pardoned Nixon. The feeling at the time was a trial for Nixon on petty charges would be so devisive as to render the office and government incapable of doing their jobs. Nobody had ever seen as much Press coverage as we saw about Nixon then. President Ford has said he still viewed the pardon as an admission of guilt event though there were no charges or convictions involved. But once a President does something if somehow means other Presidents can do it, even if there is no overriding circumstance.

    Most all of Nixon's minions did face charges and convictions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_Seven
     
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  18. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    The US needs to seriously roll back Presidential powers. Allowing a President to pardon someone who hasn't even been charged yet is not a check against unjust decisions from the judiciary. It is simply a dictatorial power.
     
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  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Here's two republican congressmen that were trump fans that broke the law... interesting that hunter's wife who pled guilty of the same crime as hunter, yet trump didn't pardon her.

     
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  20. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Maybe Hunter asked Trump not to? ;)
     

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