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[If Available] Herro or Simmons?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bleedroxred79, Dec 10, 2020.

?

Herro or Simmons?

  1. Herro

    189 vote(s)
    37.0%
  2. Simmons

    327 vote(s)
    64.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Imanimal

    Imanimal Member

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    You are clueless....salary and flexibility definitely matter.
     
    clutchdabear likes this.
  2. clutchdabear

    clutchdabear Member

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    so if that's the bet, and bc you're saying ben simmons is on that lebron/giannis level but just doesn't have a jumpshot yet... are you willing to put down 10k that ben simmons wins an mvp?
     
    YOLO likes this.
  3. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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    The fact that this thread is still going, and that a third voted for Tyler is a testimony to the cumulative .......WHATEVER (smh) of our pad now.

    Ben Simmons is and will always be far and away the better player.
     
    D-rock, Bids9, J Sizzle and 2 others like this.
  4. clutchdabear

    clutchdabear Member

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    i agree. the rockets got fleeced trading kevin martin, jeremy lamb, and a first rd pick for a guy who averaged 9.9 ppg in his rookie yr.
     
  5. im_joel

    im_joel Member

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    If this is your thinking then Harden shouldn't be traded because you will not be getting an MVP candidate back in any trade for a disgruntled Harden.

    In your scenario it would be best to just keep Harden and let him b**** and moan for the next 2 years until he leaves the team. Is this a better scenario than a potentially young all star level talent in Hero?
     
  6. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    Herro is a white American. 0 chance he will be a star.
     
  7. omgTHEpotential

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    Herro or Simmons? You're either overestimating Herro or underestimating Simmons. The choice is Simmons, and it's not close.
     
    D-rock, Bids9 and treyk3 like this.
  8. anchel

    anchel Member

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    Apart from what other users are saying, John Wall is 30, not 35. He's 5 years younger than Chris Paul, 2 years younger than Westbrook or Curry. He's the same age as Lillard. He's an smart and big PG, if he gets care of his body he has still a looong career ahead of him. Plus seems like the kind of loyal ballclub guy who would re-sign at a correct price.

    If he looks good this season and does not have physical issues, people would start to think on him as a part of the new project.
     
    RocksMillenium likes this.
  9. treyk3

    treyk3 Member

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    Here's my thinking. Harden is a 10/10 asset. These guys don't get traded midseason. Any deal would have to be before the turn of the year. Simmons is a 8.5/10 asset. Herro is a 7/10.

    Simmons nor Herro will ever be as good as Harden. I'm certain that Simmons could be the best player on a championship aspiring team. You may have to build around him with shooters, but the formula is there. I do not believe Herro can be a first option.

    Herro will be available next year even if he breaks out unless the Heat win the championship (they won't). I believe the Heat will regress (6/7 seed and first round exit) and I believe that Herro will put up similar numbers 14-3-2. Bam Adebayo and Herro is a fair package. Bam is not trade eligible due to his extension.

    Morey just put the best possible mix around Embiid and Simmons and if the Rockets don't trade for Simmons now (depends on if he's on the table), he will not be available next year. Simmons is going to finally be in a situation to succeed. Brand absolutely ****ed that team up last year. Simmons/Richardson/Harris/Horford/Embiid? Are you kidding me? In 2020? Simmons is not a point guard. His value is that he has point guard skills but lines up at the 4. Instead they surrounded him with 4 other forward/centers. When Embiid was out Ben Simmons flourished. When Simmons was out the team absolutely sucked.

    The worse the Heat are this year, the better draft pick the Rockets will have next year. Why would the Rockets hurt their own draft capital to make a deal that 99.9% will be there next year? You're giving away your best player in the past 20 years for a guy who has all-star potential, no draft capital and actively hurting your own rebuild?

    Another issue with trading with the Heat is the contract situation. The Rockets would have to waive guys on the roster now to match salary in the deal. The Rockets would have to take on Iggy, Olynyk or Dragic to make contracts work. Only one of those guys are available for trade now (Iggy) and we've seen that he is willing to sit out if he's not where he wants to be. With the 76ers you can send out extra salary because they have an exception that fits PJ. So you would get Simmons, Thybulle + 1 guard and would only have to waive Clemmons (the hard cap would no longer be an issue so the team could carry 15, with no problem).

    I take the 25% chance that Harden stays the year, changes his mind and stays long term over just sending him to the Heat, a team with no draft capital and a team that the Rockets would benefit from underperforming.
     
    #649 treyk3, Dec 13, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
    James.B.H, D-rock and fckbandwagons like this.
  10. RocksMillenium

    RocksMillenium Contributing Member

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    Either that or you're judging Herron based on things beyond basketball.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  11. im_joel

    im_joel Member

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    Can't see the Heat trading Hero and Bam for Harden with only 1 year left on his deal next year. I certainly wouldn't. Would you if you where managing the Heat?
     
  12. RocksMillenium

    RocksMillenium Contributing Member

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    Exactly. He is a franchise player health willing.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Only way I do the deal:

    [​IMG]

    And a 1st round pick from the Heat on top.

    Without Bam in it - no deal.
     
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  14. treyk3

    treyk3 Member

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    Yes.

    Harden will sign an extension wherever he is sent. I think he'll already be on a four year deal.

    It's the only way a deal gets done regardless. Whoever trades for Harden will want assurances he'll stay unless it's for a one year rental (now) and an offseason trade. Someone like the Kings who just wants relevancy for a year before sending him away to a team where he wants to be.

    I'm actually of the mindset that Harden gets traded to the 76ers between now and the start of the season or Harden surprises us all and signs an extension here. The extension would only silence trade talks for the season and the Rockets and Harden agree to work on a deal next offseason together if he wants it. The Rockets aren't going to trade Harden midseason. There just isn't precedent for these curmudgeons being traded at the deadline. Only Melo in recent history has gotten dealt at the deadline as a star player and he's no where near Harden's level. Kawhi, PG and AD were all offseason moves. Russ and CP3 were offseason moves (all five times). Teams want these stars here to start the season. Harden has shown he's willing to be traded and sign an extension on a whim (he did it with the Rockets).
     
  15. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Butler and Herro could also work with a pick or two. The possibiity of Herro being being merely a decent starter, once he starts being schemed for or occasionally double teamed is being vastly ignored. He has shown so far only to be a relatively one dimensional outside threat. His play as the relatively ignored 3rd or 4th option has not shown proven star potential just yet.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  16. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    I still think Simmons is the better player but Herro is absolutely not one dimensional. Great driver and finisher, can shoot of the bounce, actually has a nice step back, handles are solid and does pretty well going left, passing is really underrated and could run point in a pinch.
    I think people are stereotyping too much and not actually looking at the kids play.
     
    everyday eddie and clutchdabear like this.
  17. sirjesse

    sirjesse The Udoker has spoken!
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    Only way I do Miami is I get every prospect they have:

    herro
    Robinson
    Nunn
    Precious
    Kz
    2frp
    Olynyk
    Andre

    someone questioned getting so many players back. That is a net advantage. Team gets more depth and opens up other trade possibilities. Not saying I would do this trade if Harden may stay; I’m saying if Harden is refusing under any circumstances.....Simmons is not being offered, then I want literally anything Miami has close to a prospect from Herro to KZ.
     
  18. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    except he was in his third year putting up 17/4/4 on insanely good efficiency.

    Herro shot 46% from 2 - meh. For example.

    But even if we say ok you have a point... you still don’t because look at the trade. The Rockets didn’t give up a scoring leader, all star, all nba player in that trade. Heck the Wizards wouldnt Eve give up a young Bradley Beal for Harden in a trade. He certainly wasn’t getting traded for a Dwayne Wade type be it his rookie year or his third year even.

    get it? It’s not that it can’t work out... just that the value isn’t there now.
     
  19. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    he shot 42% on shots 3-10 feet. Pretty weak.

    His 56% from the rim is ok. Not great compared to Hardens 68%.

    you guys are trying to be talked into the fact that Herro+ is equal value for James Harden.

    at the current time he’s absolutely NOT even if he becomes a top 5 all time nba player.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  20. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    No where have I said that it’s equal value. My preference is to keep Harden and hope it works out.
    I’m strictly talking about the packages presented.
     
    clutchdabear and JayZ750 like this.

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