What people don’t get about Simmons is we could utilize him like a Draymond on steroids. Wall is the primary ball handler, but Simmons is your change of pace guy and one man transition player that could absolutely wreck defenses after grabbing a rebound. Like Draymond, he’s a high IQ and versatile defender. Only with more offense. The three point shooting is an issue, of course, but he’s going to start taking more 3-pt attempts under DM’s regime. If he can get to around 30% that’s roughly Draymond’s career average. People forget that he only shot exceptionality well (35%+) for one season his entire career. It’s not far-fetched to believe he could be respectable in catch-and-shoot situations. Plus, it’s not like as a 4/5 we would pair Simmons with another 4/5 that can’t stretch the defense. These concerns are very overblown, IMO. In any event, the Simmons vs Herro question is laughable to me. Nothing against Herro, but his upside is nowhere near what Simmons’ could be if utilized correctly.
Use him like draymond for what? One thing you're forgetting and it's pretty significant, I don't see any steph, klay, kd's on the perimeter waiting for the Draymond on steroids. One of the biggest reasons Draymond exceled is because he had those guys around him. Notice what happened when kd left, steph being out for the year, and klay was injured what did draymond do? absolutely nothing. he's only as good as the superior talent around him where he can fill that role. If that's not there, he becomes purely a mediocre player right. herro's upside is nowhere near simmons because it's actually higher. at 19-20 herro absolutely blew simmons out the building at the same age
Simmons has a max contract. That’s a problem for a guy who can’t score. Again not a number 1 or number 2 option. This is the Simmons conundrum. He makes too much to not be able to score.
He looks bad now because he’s pretty clearly washed. It’s one thing to be undersized, but undersized + washed is a bad spot to be in. GS can have fun with that contract. This wouldn’t be an issue with 6’10” and 24-year-old Simmons.
what exactly is he washed from? he just turned 30 this year and a role player. There isn't much to be washed from for a player meant to fil in some gaps for your true stars when they play. It's not called washed. It's called being exposed. he didn't have the luxury of playing with the guys that truly get the attention this past year what does 6'10 and 24 mean? He's been injured in a mere 3 years significantly more than Draymond has in his entire nba career. not exactly something to highlight
Yes Simmons offensive game is atrocious. Even floaters or close range shots look weird and he doesn’t know how to maneuver around defenders when they step up. Ugh.
This. People are just looking at Herro's playoffs. It's really not comparable what these players have done..... Herro isn't being asked to run an offense but just play a role within it.
I can't disagree Ben has higher upside. That's not the problem -- the problem is the chances that he actually will develop his shooting. I have a lot of room for doubt on this, especially with him already earning the money he does. But people also need to stop making it seem like Herro has 0 potential from what we've seen. Ben has been in the league for 4 seasons, out 1 season due to injury. Herro on his rookie contract contributed to a Finals appearance.
Tbh, I'm not sure how anyone can look at upside and talk about how high it is when someone absolutely can't shoot in the game that prioritizes shooting the basketball, especially in the modern era. puzzling indeed and you're about to command max for that. Easy pass
I’m specifically talking about his offensive game. Simmons is not a one on one player getting to the basket at will or pulling up for a jumpshot. He cuts, hangs around the block, plays low post (not exactly great) or elbows. He is crafty the way he scores out of necessity due to his lack of offensive ability much like how Pat Beverly is crafty at defense for his lack of overall athleticism and talent. Simmons just isn’t that guy. He is not a bonifide 1 or 2. He can be a complimentary third star on a team with 2 studs. And people on here compare him to draymond. But draymond doesn’t make $34 mil a year. This is the problem. If you take his contract on and wall who is the other scorer? You can make a case for woods but who is helping wall on the perimeter? Start Gordon perhaps? This is where the problem lies. Need another scorer/star to replace harden. This is why the rockets have asked for kyrie or Durant.
I mean sure.... but you get Simmons for his ability to run an offense and be an elite defensive player. Well sure but look at what Herro was asked to do as a rookie and what Simmons was in his first actual nba season..... totally different things. One was asked to play a role among veteran players while the other was asked to run a team.
I'll tell you one reason why its going to be incredibly difficult for Tyler Herro to reach the height of current Ben Simmons.(NBA allstar, top 20-30 player in teh nba) Its called Genetics. He is a 6'5 white guy with short arms(6'4.5 wingspan) and limited athleticism playing the 2 guard. A Tyler Herro dies in a car crash every other day in America. There is a ceiling to these kinds of guys in the nba. 18-20ppg on good TS%. Basically a 3rd tier supporting role on a contending team.
Disagree. We need another primary creator/playmaker to replace Harden, you put scorers/shooters around Simmons. Guys that can create and score like Harden don't really exist.
Sure. But let’s not call him a stud or make him out to be what he is not yet. IMO he is not that type of special player. Not even in that realm or discussion.
As we all know, DM’s entire offensive philosophy revolves around the 3-pt shot. If Simmons stays in Philly, make no mistake about it: he will he shooting three pointers this year. So I guess we will see. It’s not like players that once struggled from distance improving in that regard is unheard of. And I don’t think anyone is arguing Herro has zero potential or anything like that. They’re just scoffing at the idea that Miami wouldn’t actually surrender him in a Harden trade.
Not asking for replication. Asking for a star who can play offense. Create, get his own shot, kick out to shooters. Scorer. This is what I mean by scorer. This is why they want a star for compensation. We are talking about the same thing. Semantics.
