Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Killed in Apparent Assination

The IEDs were planted by Ahmad chalabi and hash to al shabi groups linked to Iran’s revolutionary guard. They were trained in Iran. We conducted many counter insurgencey raids in Basra ( joint operation with the British paras) and caught many of them. They were hashto al shabi


And the same Chalabi the Bush Administration trusted

 

So it seems this guy was a member of the IRG, I stand corrected, not that it makes this killing justified but I have no issue with saying I was wrong.

 

Pat yourself on the shoulder. Then explain how that is relevant to my point.

 

Do I think the Iraq invasion should have happened ? no, We should have take out the cancerous force in the region ( dictatorship in Iran)but I’m not going to apologise for serving the flag and doing my duty when called a upon ? No self loathing is not my style. Will never be ashamed


And response was was to another quote I mistakenly quoted your last post. Anyway this is going nowhere. I am not going to change my opinion about the the regime in Iran who’s founding leader wanted to spread his revolution throughout the region. Self preservation is not their end goal. It’s a Shia dominated region. With an arsenal of atomic bombs. Same goal the loonies in Saudi have.

Have to agree to disagree here

 

I think what gets lost in all of this is that NO one in the US intelligence field or really even on these message boards likes the Iranian government. The question is, what is in the best interest of the United States and in the region. While we do not like dictatorships, we do not typically remove them unless they are attempting to take other lands. Also, virtually all intervention in the removal of a dictatorship by the USA over the last 70 years has been a failure. Be it Iraq, Syria or Yemen. All it leads to in instability and additional human suffering and enormous costs to the USA.

The USA and the Middle East would be in a far better position right now if the Arab Spring had never happened....... and Hussein ruled Iraq, Syria was ruled by Al -Assad and the chips in Libya and Afghanistan had fallen as they would have. Our involvement in all of this is in part the working of Israel and special interest groups within the USA.

 

The Arab Spring was Obama’s bright idea to help the moderate islamists rise in the region.George Soros was the brains behind the operation. The irony here is that Iran has a hugely pro United States population. Something like 70 percent of the population is under 40 and absolutely loves us. If the we want to bring some stability to the region, we need to help the population that absolutely hates the current regime to topple it without sending in any boots on the ground.Untill that regime is in place nothing will change. They are now helping the taliban in Afghanistan to. They used to be absolute enemies but they have a common enemy and that is us.From the day they grabbed power, their number 1 slogan was death to the great Satan. Again this is not me saying it, it is Ayatollah Khomeini their founding leader saying it.

Just last year we saw a mass uprising amongst the population but the Trump administration blew it and watched the regime slaughter thousands of people. The UN did nothing as well.

Political Islam, political Christianity or any other religion is toxic. State and church mixed together is a recipe for disaster. This is why I stay out of all things politics because I despise it.

 

The cynic in me think this could not have been avoided.

Petroleum has been at the root of all our problems.

They will never let their trillions worth of investment into dirt go to waste.

 

It doesn't matter to me if it is Obama's, Bush's or Trump's idea as it is US foreign policy and it has been US policy for 60 years. We have a long record of interfering in the Middle East with little to no positive coming from it.

I agree that many Iranians think fondly of the USA or at least are aware that their government is not all that it claims to be. I don't think supporting the killing of scientists is the way to go, nor is any military involvement. If the will of the people in Iran is strong enough, they will over throw their government.

If we really wanted stability in the region, we never would have invaded Iraq or supported the over throw of the family in Syria. Both of those were very stable states in the region.

 

I have no problem sending in special ops cells to take out their research and development military based nuke program. Thankfully Mossad is doing our bidding. You are ok with a nuke armed revolutionary guard military regime?

Clandestine ops are not clean. This is the same regime that takes hostages? You forgot they took our embassy staff for over a year? Was that self preservation to? That was right at the start of their revolution.

 

I think it is only a matter of time before they have nuclear technology regardless of what we do. As I said, I do not know anyone that likes the Iranian government, but I also do not like Russia and they have nuclear technology, North Korea is ran by a horrendous regime and they have nuclear technology, same with Pakistan and even Turkey have access to nuclear weapons.

I think the USA would be smarter attempting to either develop professional relationships with these nations or agreements to avoid each other.

 

Besides North Korea, the countries you named are run by rational sane people. Even though a lot of the Pakistanis practice Wahhabism, the military there is not going to threaten anyone with the use of nukes. The only reason they created it with Saudi funding as a counter balance to India and protection of the Saudi kingdom. Pakistan is a pretty much a Saudi puppet state.

The Clinton and Bush Junior admins repeatedly tried to approach the so called reformist elements within the regime like Khatami but all their attempts were torpedoed by the hardline fundamentalist supreme leader and the guards who are all vehemently anti us.

We have tried countless time to start a dialogue but the real power base is staunchly anti American.At some point you come to the conclusion that there is no reasoning with this regime. Even North Korea has reasoning power.

 

I don't really see the Iranian leadership as being all that much worse than leadership in Turkey or Pakistan. I used to feel differently, but the more I have looked into Iran (interest started as my wife is Assyrian from Iraq), the more I have concluded they are interested above all else in self preservation.

 

That is where we disagree. Erdogan and Qatar are also trouble makers in the region but they are not openly calling for another countries destruction.
As for Pakistan, I know full well how much dirty dealing their intelligence services does. We were aware they were training and funding the Taliban in Afghanistan. They had training camps in the eastern parts of Pakistan where the Pakistani military and the intelligence service was training them. Guess where Bin Laden was hiding?

As for the ayatollahs I don’t blame Israel for being in self preservation mode as well . They have been openly chanting death to Israel since 1979. They are looking at Iran’s nuke as threat.If the Iranian regime was after persevation then why spurn the olive branches given to them by the different us administrations?

at their core they are anti us and noway we should allow them to get nukes.Hopefully one day the Iranian people will get rid of the regime. However they are dealing with a brutal merciless regime that just a year ago killed over 1500 people in the streets in just under a week in cold blood infront of the world. It’s hard to topple that kind of dictatorship

 

What we are seeing is really very simple with Iran/GOP/Israel/Saudi

The Iran normalization/diplomacy represents a pathway for the US to exit the Middle East peacefully. The GOP/Israel/Saudi alliance have a vested interest in the US tax payer funded war machine staying in the middle east long term. A US exit in the Middle East only works for the GOP if Russia is ready to jump in the areas that we exit... which is why the Trump admin wants to exit only certain parts of the Middle East (where Russia could jump in) and just move Troops over to other areas to influence like Yemen etc. Trump's followers thinking he actually wants to get troops out of the middle east just shows how ignorant many of them are.

So the question is.... are Democrats okay with Russia taking over in their place in the Middle East with an anti-West Iran staying in place long term???... IMO no... I prefer for Iran to have more influence than Russia and I'll explain why.

Iran... while unsavory, and fundamentalist in their nature.... is probably more of a Democracy than Russia is at this point, and as it looks like the Supreme Leader could be put out of power or die relatively soon, there is an opening for an election (if more Democractic/Western ideal are popular at that time) for Iran to elect a much more Democratic/less Theocratic/Hostile to the West Supreme Leader. Iran also WANTS to be friendly with the US more than you might think. Russia's dictator for life does not want a friendly relationship with the US AT ALL... he wants the US to be a lifeless third world country so he can be the most powerful person in the world.

So the GOP & Israel/Netanyanu really are creating a scenario that makes the West & Democracy much less popular in Iran which is likely to create a scenario that keeps Iran more Theocratic through it's elections which then creates a gigantic enemy in the Middle East where we could eventually have a more stable force to help keep peace.

The Democratic Party starting with the Obama admin really is taking a gamble that there is a groundswell WITH THE PEOPLE for a more Democratic Western type of government which I do agree with knowing quite a few people from Iran that I know through my job. It is of course risky to bank on Iran being that stabilizing force in the Middle East for a peaceful a more Democratic world, but it's a chance that I personally believe is worth it... and I believe that the GOP's propaganda is toxic and only works against American interests long term unless you are an oil billionaire or are a shareholder for Lockheed.

 

There you go with your naive take that Iran has more important goals above self-preservation. I think until you change your entire paradigm of a simplistic "good vs evil" world, you will never realize that nation-states regardless of their religous fundamentalism still value self-preservation above all else.

And again, interfering with assasination of scientists allows the Iranian government to sell to its people that their sovereignty is being threatened and the only full proof method to secure said sovereignty is a nuke. You've been brainwashed to believe that Iran would pre-emetively attack Israel and therefore go diametrically against their primary goal of self-preservation.

I'm more worried about nations with unstable governments holding nukes as their security might falter and actual lunatics that don't have that self-preservation desire taking them due to failing security measures.

Don't make the case to the Iranian people that their only option is having a nuclear weapons. You are making that case when you interfere and assisinate their scientists.

You would also have to be pretty naive to not see all the "death to Israel" rhetoric as nothing more than Kabuki theater so Iranian citizens can deflect their anger from leadership to a foerign entity. It's what bad faith power hungry leaders do to maintain power. Same goes for Bibi, also a corrupt grifter, wanting to deflect his corruption and concentrate his people's frustrations towards entire like Iran.

 

I wonder if people @riko realize the only reason Iran has a theocratic rule is because the British and the US interfered with Iranian sovereignty and therefore the Iranian people sought after extremist rhetoric that gave pride to their culture and religion.

We are repeating the same mistakes over and over.

 

Until the Revolutionary Guard and Khamenie are in power it’s wishful thinking. Khamenies successor ( his son Mojtaba) is even more hardline then him. If you think his death will bring in an era of great policy change then yeah no.

We hoped the more less radical elements in the regime like Khatami could break the power of the guards and Khamenie but they control the foreign policy at this point. The only hope is for the Iranian people to get this regime to change its outlook and open up

 

Never going to happen if we keep on attacking their sovereignty with extra-judicial murders on their soil. This is the easiest form of red meat the Iranian regime can throw at their people to convince them a hardline anti-west approach while obtaining a nuclear weapons to secure their sovereignty is the way.

 

The question though is it being a mistake or not. I don't think it's one at this point, and it's obviously in the interest of the GOP and their Oligarchs in Oil and Corporate Tax Payer Funded War to push Iran to be what it is. When you assasinate two of their top officials and they do next to nothing when they have the power to do a whole heck of alot, that tells you they actually don't want what the GOP wants them to do.

Think about if Iran assasinated John Kelly back when he was Secretary of Defense. Even though he was a right wing hack, all of America would be pretty outraged and expect a brutal response. It's hard to conclude that the Parliament, President, and maybe even the Supreme Leader to a certain extent (even though he has to put on a hard right/theocratic face on) want normalized US relations and they realize their people want that too but the US and Israel through the GOP's shenanigans just wont give them that.....

Which is something we all should be outraged by honestly.

 

I’m not sure what more the Clinton and bush administration could have done. They offerd to open up full diplomatic relations including lifting the sanctions spurned their offer. The country is run by the IRGC and they are vehemently against any restart of diplomatic relations with the US.Until they rule the roost then it’s hard to see a breakthrough.

There was no GOP shenanigans then right?