France under attack by Islamists (including Erdogan)

The difference between USA muslim "refugees" and European muslim "refugees" is not how they have been treated.
Is WHO they are.

Who can make it to the USA and claim asylum?
Here we have people from remote mountain villages crossing the borders to find free money in Germany.
Whereas only the cream of the crop can make it to the US.
If there are mountain villagers they are extremely few.

Heck believe it or not we have had here VENEZUELAN asylum seekers two years ago. Because apparently it was easier to cross the atlantic and come to my island than to Texas.

 

You keep saying education.
What kind of education?

Let's say an Afghani has finished high school so he is kinda educated.

You think that the education he received is the same as american high school education?

Or is an education that instead promotes discrimination and fanatism since it has been infused with islamic fanatism?
An education that from the beginning disqualifies women since it's not their place and should go back home?
An education that teaches that the Quaran is over the law?

In France you have teachers teaching about freedom of speech.
You think that Afghan high schools teach about freedom of speech?

Maybe it is even better not to be educated than to have finished high school over there.

 

Yup..... geography is the key to success.

 

I don't find anything inherently more violent about Islam than Christianity or Judaism but that doesn't mean letting in a bunch of poor, uneducated, religious fundamentalists is a good idea either.

 

I’m thinking more of university education.

 

No one knows if there are terrorist attacks in China because the CCP lie and there is no free press in China. Further, no one outside of China is going to applaud the Chinese having concentration camps to kill and indoctrinate Muslims.

The CCP is disgusting, now go away.

 

that is a magnificently sexy horse

 

This is the problem. Muhammed waged wars and killed people. Broke treaties. I honestly don't know any religious deities other than pagan or polytheistic religions that are like this.

Islam allows lying for certain things as well. Not only that, they outlaw other faiths or charge them taxes (Jizya).

If there is any ethical or moral compass at all, I would imagine these things are enough to say the religion is dangerous.

 

Somebody set off a poorly made bomb outside the American embassy just two years ago. A husband and wife were hacked to death by a religious extremist right in the middle of Sanlitun a few years back. Bet that never made its way to the outside press. And that’s just in Beijing.

I’m with most of you guys on the fact that we need to do something about extremism. But the so-called “re-education” camps are not the way. I believe that proper integration is. Easier said than done, I get it. But I don’t think China should be the example to follow on this matter.

edit: my bad Nook I quoted the wrong post..but yeah I think we’re of the same mind on this subject

 

I am still reeling and trying to grapple with this but now it's not the time to 'generalize' and throw everyone under the bus.

The guy was an IS supporter.
The muslim nation got tons of sub groups and it is too taxing to figure everyone of them out.

Just as an orthodox Jew is far different from a plain Jew, you can't just throw them in as 'Muslims'.

Any militant wing of a religion should be scrutinized and turned our back to, that include the Holy Christian crusaders in the past.

So just screw Jihadists and any extreme religion for that matter.

And thanks for turning that into a China issue again, way to go off rails.

Spoiler

 

You're normally a voice of reason so let's not beat around the bush here.

The reason for any camps is that the Han authorities cannot cope with some groups of Uyghurs and Kazhaks and the religion for sure.

It is is total assimilation vs religion and their way of life.

And yes they have terrorist splinter cells but Beijing didn't just filter them out successfully.

Xi made it a lot worse than it needed to be.

If you go to Europe, every country would ask for assimilation and integration, but yes, there are boundaries.

 

You’re right, and of course the vast majority of Muslims in China (or anywhere) are just trying to live their lives, same as everyone else. It’s just really frustrating to me to see what’s happening in Europe right now, religious extremism is a stain on, well, everything. But to see that earlier poster say “oh well the Chinese way of dealing with it works great” kind of rubbed me the wrong way, there are definitely many better ways to handle a religious minority than what I’ve seen over here.

 

I honestly don't see how any of your points would lead to relevant change, it seems like all you would do is gloss over the alarming parts of the Quran and its prophet, while acting like it's still a peaceful religion and only misinterpreted.

Because his mindset and history is essential to the core teachings of that religion and it needs to be harshly pointed out, instead of the followers trying to downplay negative aspects and glorifying that person?
If you want that religion to be peaceful and progressive, it's important to look for positive role models that preach peace and tolerance instead of what Mohammad did.

Saying that calling him out is just me or others trying to call him a "deviant pedophile" and grinding gears is absurd and exactly the kind of defense mechanism that leads to Muslims absolving themselves of any fault.

Because these passages DO EXIST and are the main reason for terrorist attacks and hate, as the terrorists themselves will tell you.
Skipping over them is the bullsh** peaceful and non-radical Muslims do in order to act like Islam isn't the problem or a valid reason for groups like IS to defend their actions.

If you don't emphasize how these inherent teachings are a key factor and need to be eradicated, you are doing terrorists a favour and let them continue with their mission for eternity.
As long as people can grab a Quran and be indoctrinated by these passages or listen to them at their local mosque, absolutely nothing will change and it's the very responsibility of Muslims themselves to change that by being extremely vocal about it and taking action.

No, terrorists aren't "perverting" your religion, they are the ones following the Quran and philosophy of the prophet. So change the religion itself instead of hiding behind select passages that don't mirror the overall tone and core of the Quran.

 

Mind you, it's a minority in the country but not a minority where they are staying.

It is or was an autonomous region, meaning the majority lives there, also meaning they are not properly integrated in any form.

I do not think they are utterly poor and uneducated though.

You see with the Palestinians it's also territorial, you can't really solve it.

Israel and the world have not solved it.

What Vienna could do now is work with Mossad and organisations to smoke out sleeper cells. No fan of Israel too but that's all they could do.

China itself is not stable, IMO you can't really expect from a place that ain't stable overall to find a proper solution while Israel is dealing with it for 70 years.

BTW two locals with Turkish roots helped with saving people during the shooting, a humanitarian gesture, we all sympathize with this kind of people. RIP those we lost, what a horrific night.

 

First, I didn’t turn it into a China issue again. Another Chinese poster brought it up and how they are effectively silencing Islamic terrorists.

Second of all, we are discussing Muslim immigrants in Europe. We are not discussing Christians or atheists or Hindi followers so there is no reason for “what aboutism”.

Third, there is no value in sticking your head in sand and acting as if there isn’t a problem. Just because something doesn’t fit your clean organized view of the world, doesn’t make it any less real.

 

I respect what you believe, just reminded there is thread for everything else.

This should be about Europe and extremists but sure we can talk China here too but is another story.

Keep it as organized as possible.

I do not mind whataboutism, as long as you do not linger on one specific issue.

I for one am not a religious person so I tend to say something not appropriate, I own up to it.

Also your dislike for the Party is shining through too much and kind of one-sided , we should strive for more objectivity.

The camps are obviously not just meant for terrorists but also for civilians. It touches on civil rights.

3. So something happens on the other side of the world and I should be concerned while a terrorist attacks happens right before our eyes, I am to discuss something different, ....yeah right, that's some sticking head into sand..... you have no idea what you are doing other than whining about communism and CCP.

And yet you can't do anything about the CCP that vexes you.

 

Again, I did not mention China until someone else (a CCP supporter) praised the handling of Muslims in China, which is putting them in concentration camps.

Sorry, but my dislike of the CCP isn’t “too much”. I will never side with putting people in concentration camps. I will never support taking people by force off the street and from their homes in the middle of the night without warning or legal recourse. I will not say that is okay. If you want to rationalize that is okay and the CCP isn’t that bad, then go right ahead but I want no part of it.

I don’t have easy or wonderful solutions for solving the issues with Islamic extremism in Europe, but I have seen first hand it is a serious problem and not one that is remotely comparable to what Americans can understand. What I do know is that sending them to concentration camps like the CCP supporter suggested is not an acceptable solution.

 

Any idea how many were the terrorists?
They are still on the loose ...daywalker buckle up inside. Even if you arent in Vienna they
might have already fled to other cities.

The one ***** shot dead was a 20 y.o Albanian from Skopje. Raised in Austria.
How can a 20 y.o find so many guns?
How and in which mosque did he become radicalised?
The mosque he visited better close up and banned and the mufti interrogated.
We all know that mosques act as centres of radicalisation.