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What Philosophy Did The Fathers Use As A Basis For Constitutional Rights?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pgabriel, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. adoo

    adoo Member

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  2. adoo

    adoo Member

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    Congress has passed ~ 25 amendments to the US constitution, no?
     
  3. Buck Turgidson

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    The words "well regulated" have meaning, do they not?
     
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  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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  5. biina

    biina Member

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    It means 'stand down and stand by'!
     
  6. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    It has stood the test of time. Its brilliance is in its flexibility to adjust to the time period

    It doesn't need to be rewritten to deal withe the internet for instance
     
  7. Buck Turgidson

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    Which ones of us are 3/5th of a person?
     
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  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Do you hate the constitution or are you looking for an argument? Slavery was the law of the land. Its over. So is the clause so why debate it now?

    What is your opinion of the document as is?
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

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    "It has stood the test of time" --pgabs
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    So the whole constitution is gone? It took a war to get rid of slavery because at the time most of the nation believed in it

    Therefore it wasn't going to be corrected constitutionally. People willing to die over an issue is yes above the constitution in setting policy

    Do you think the fore fathers should have had a civil war immediately after the revolution?
     
  11. biina

    biina Member

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    If you think the civil war was purely about slavery, then you are in no position to talk about stuff like the constitution
     
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  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Its not set in stone. We have an amendment process and its bar is set very high.

    In other words, if the issue is serious enough that we can get 75% of the country to agree on, we can change it. Its not hard to get 51% of people to agree on something. Its much harder to get 75%. The next step down from mob rule (51%) is civil war.
     
  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Slavery was already on the outs. I wish to think the cause of the civil war to end slavery was about the individuals needs. But it was about economics. The south didn't want to give up its cheap labor and the north didnt want to give up its markets over seas that we starting to boycott American goods.

    Im not much about the racial boogie man, but I can say there was not very many white people who were willing to die for a black man to be freed. And there was a lot of white people who died.
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    "It has stood the test of time" --pgabs
     
  15. Buck Turgidson

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    Should we keep it all?
     
  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    States rights is like the original dog whistle
     
  17. Kim

    Kim Member

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    The secession documents aren't 100% in line with this.
    https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/secession-the-confederate-flag-and-slavery
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The Founding Fathers are very important figures not just for the US but for World History. Their influence has greatly shaped how we understand the nature of the individual versus the state.

    Me personally I am a big admirer of the the US Founding Fathers and especially during the Trump Presidency has made me appreciate their ideas and the ideas enshrined in the US Constitution far more. That doesn't mean that these people weren't very flawed people and that the Constitution isn't a flawed document. As noted there is an amendment process and there is a reason why it's a high bar to change.

    It's also very important to keep in context what was happening then when the Constitution was written. It is a product of a time when slavery was not only legal but widely accepted throughout the World. As much as we criticize the US and the Founding Fathers for preserving the institution we need to remember that the UK along with most of Europe in addition to then world powers of China and India still practiced slavery. In the late 18th Century slavery was the norm.

    That the US Founding Fathers for the time preserved slavery given the time was to be expected. That many of the Founding Fathers were against slavery and there was very serious consideration in banning it at the Constitutional Convention is one of the remarkable things about that group.

    While the Founders were men of their time with the failings of their times it's how they were able to look beyond those times. The ideas of Enlightenment ideas of individual liberty and separation of powers is what is to be admired and followed. These people obviously couldn't foresee things like airplanes, the Internet, and nuclear weapons but those ideas still apply and I think are just as relevant now as when they were first written.
     
    #39 rocketsjudoka, Nov 1, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Just to add for those who complain about the undemocratic nature of Founding Fathers and the US election system a big reason for that was prevent a Trump like figure.

    Hamilton wrote in Federalist 1 about the danger of "demagogues and zealots" becoming tyrants. He foresaw how a popular individual could use grievance to take over a country and also how a President could use the power of government for personal gain.
     

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