Our coach doesn't want Harden off ball running around because that's what Harden wants. Every new "wrinkle" that Harden added the past few years conveniently has him move his feet less from being a post defender to standing at the top of the half court line a la Mcgrady in Toronto. But no it's all apart of the "Dantoni system". No it's Dantoni catering to Harden's weaknesses and trying to minimize them. Harden's weaknesses? His in game stamina and cardio conditioning is extremely weak for his position of guard. He has a set number of steps he can run per game before he becomes umpa lumps out there on the court.
Butler definitely isn't a better player than Harden. Harden is definitely a more talented player and has more success. However there are some weaknesses that Harden has that he can see what Butler does different.
Nice! A Harden highlight from 8+ years ago when he was the third option on the team. Show me a highlight with the Rockets where he makes a play like this in the WCF during a elimination/close out game...I’ll wait. Look I was the biggest Harden fan up to a couple years ago. Honestly, I still put him with my all times favorites to watch - w/ Penny Hardaway and TMac. I just can’t defend this dude anymore especially when the playoffs come around. The WCF performance once CP3 went down showed me (and all of you who refuse to admit it) who Harden really was - a generational offensive juggernaut that was unable to will his team to victory for 1 game when he had one of the best assembled teams on the ropes. I’ve lowered my expectations and now just enjoy his regular season greatness and appreciate the way he scores the basketball (which is truly remarkable).
See I don’t understand this take. Who cares how old he is? Or how long it took him. He’s doing something remarkable now - something we’ve never seen Harden do. That’s what we’re calling hate now? Folks are quick to throw out the word hate when Harden is rightfully criticized around here. Butler literally willed his team to victory last night - went blow for blow with the greatest player on this planet and kept his team alive.
Harden has obviously never done what Jimmy is doing now. Harden is always gassed by the 2nd round in the playoffs when he's the #1 guy.
I'm taking into account the whole playoffs, not just the Lakers series. Its been arguable in each series about who the best player was for each team. Out of all those three you listed only EG can come off screens effectively like that. And after what you saw these playoffs do you really expect him to be a playmaker in our offense? What did he show you that he could plays make like that. Covington and Tucker are two slow to run around screens like that to get a shot off nor are they amazing finishers around the rim like say Jae Crowder has been. It's not about percentages its about them being able to run an offense a certain way. For what its worth I dont think that those guys have better players. But I dont think you understand how bad Russ hurt us when he was on the floor. But as for talking about Harden and the Laker's series....Butler has a system where you fundamentally cant double guys because they run system that punishes that actions. Mike could have done a better job with that but we also had players that really hurt us as the release valve to said doubles. And like I said, good luck putting AD on Harden for an entire series. If AD dosent get injured, we probably arent talking about this right now. 538's Player ratings for the Rockets https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/ Player ratings for the Heat https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/ Our supposed 2nd best player lol. PJ Tucker was our next highest rated player(I hope he retirees a Rocket). Yea, I know that was Harden's fault for that. I agree. But to be fair, was it actually really about movement? Or was it the fact that Cp3 was clearly playing worse the year before? Like if Cp3 was that guy from 2017-2018 then he's stilll here. The guy didnt perform in the playoffs when we needed him and we stupidly traded him and that is Harden's fault(although we know according to Nook that he never asked for Cp to specifically be traded, a lot of that was Tilllman). Do we know that for sure? Our organization is all about leaning into efficient plays. We dont run ineffcient plays just to cater to Harden. Harden does what the coaching staff asks of him imo. I understand what you are saying and I respect your arguments here. But I just want to add a little bit of context to this situaion. I feel like a lot of questions will be answered here about Harden with our new coach and most likely system.
I think it's the other way around. I think Morey and Dantoni work around Harden's weaknesses and what he isn't willing to do which is move his feet more. It's a restraint they have in designing the system around Harden. They know he won't do it so they have to design a system that is most effective for a ball dominant superstar who doesn't like moving his feet at all when he doesn't have the ball and who also loves slowing the pace down to a crawl by walking around everywhere or doing stationary dribbles.
But you have no way of knowing this? How do you know this is not what Morey and MDA asked him to do? Rivers has even said as much about James in an interview. I You'll see if James is really pushing for this stuff with out new coaching staff. As far I know right now, the evidence seems to suggest that James does what is asked of him by Morey and Dantoni.
Well then I think I'll win unless Harden has some ridiculous off-season routine where he significanltly leans down and works on his off ball movement and cardio conditioning, I doubt we'll see a Harden who runs around off ball much ever.
It's based off a hunch that I believe NBA level coaches never want less ball movement and off ball movement. They always want more. It's a very novel idea for a NBA coach to desire that willingly unless it's to mask a core player's weaknesses.
He doesnt have to do it a lot, he just needs to do it enough to keep the defense honest. Who knows what the next coach is going to ask of him though.
Dantoni has always been a put the ball in your best player's hands kind of guy. In Phoneix the ball was always in Nash's hands pretty much. There have been articles written about Harden moving off ball in regards to Dantoni. Dantoni also didnt think Harden needed to do alot off ball. Dantoni doesn't like Harden to move because it kills the spacing for the other guys. I dont think its an inherently bad philosophy, I just think you need the right personnel(not Westbrook as your second best guy).
The ball was in Nash's hands a lot. You are absolutely right. But Nash like CP3 dominates the ball totally differently than the way Harden dominates the ball. The way CP3 and Nash dominate the ball encourages off ball movement because they are constantly probing the defense, attacking the pick and roll and constantly moving with the dribble with their teammates moving in sync with them.
Never seen Harden do? Harden's playoffs performances have been much better than Butler's. You guys and your knee-jerk reactions. Butler is having his best playoff performance, but Harden's still standing toe-to-toe with him: Jimmy Butler: 29 points per game, 55.8% field goal - 27.3% from the 3pt, 8 rebounds, 10 assists, like 2.7 steals per game James Harden: 29 points per game, 50% field goal - 37.8% from the 3pt, 5 rebounds, 7 assists, 1.5 steals per game This is all whilst Harden is getting double-teamed at half-court. Oh, if Harden's teammates could consistently shoot, he probably would have averaged the same amount of assists as Butler.... if not more.
Harden may be more naturally talented but it’s not always about that. Sometimes having the intangibles is what separates the good from the great and the great from the elite. Throughout this whole playoff run Jimmy has shown he has an unquenchable thirst to win. Everybody wants to win, lots of guys talk about it, very few actually back it up. His win at all costs, will-not-die, can do attitude is infectious and it rubs off on his teammates. I see a lot of posters here saying things like well Jimmy has better teammates or his team is deeper etc. that may or may not be true but when you have a superstar leader that’s consistent with his attitude it goes a long way in making your teammates believe as well and play better also. Here’s Jim the front runner in a nutshell. Wins game 1. Wide eyed, sounds confident, believes in himself and the team. Team is excited and believes as well. All is good. Here’s Jim after the Lakers show resistance and Harden finds himself in a hole. Look at the change in his voice, attitude and confidence is zero. This type of **** runs off on his teammates. When Jimmy was down 0-2 he still believed in himself and his teammates. When he was down 3-1 he could’ve easily folded, called it a bubble and went home. Nope. Believed more than ever and dug extra deep and rose up to the challenge. Went toe to toe against LeBron and carried his team. You can’t teach that. You can’t fake that. You either got it or you don’t. That’s the big difference between Jim and Jimmy.
You're talking so much bullshit. Harden was the only one who gave a **** in game 5. You could tell he was the only one trying and trying, but his teammates let him down.
5:6 assist to turnover ratio and -29 for the game. Wouldn’t be surprised if he had his bags packed after game 4.
Okay.... mention his turnover ratio to validate your claim he didn't give a crap. Oh, that's +/- crap is always a terrible argument. Rivers was +7.... but he shot 2/7 with only 9 points from 24 minutes. Ben McLemore was +6.... but he was 3/9 with only 9 points from 20 minutes. Jeff Green was only -7.... but he was 3/9 with only 13 points from 25 minutes. Westbrook was by far the worst player out there, but he was only -23. It just proves Harden's teammates completely sold the crap out of him that game. Are you forgetting the 30 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal and 1 block he had? Harden made up for those 6 turnovers.... and then some. Please look at the stats from Harden and his teammates and tell me who gave a crap way more? Who actually went home with a good performance. Westbrook was too busy fighting with virtual fans to give a crap. The other teammates looked like they didn't want to be there for most of the bubble. This is why people throw around the hate word for Harden because you guys nitpick every single Harden does. You can't back up your arguments with facts. You see one bad mistake Harden does but ignore the many good things he does during the game.
