Who is better right now James Harden or Lebron James?

I simply want to understand what you mean by "heliocentric offense". You're using vague adjectives like "major" and "largely". I want you to be more specific.

So you want to re-watch the whole game? Go ahead. Knock yourself out.

Sorry but you're 100% wrong. In some clips, Harden was so disengaged from the offense that there were only 9 players on the screen because Harden was hanging around half-court.

Tons of guys played him from behind to stop his step-back? I thought it was only Utah, and they were widely ridiculed for it. Which other teams defended him like that?

Nice job dodging the question. That means you know I'm right.

You're making a fool of yourself by not admitting the obvious.

Video footage of full possessions absolutely do tell the whole story.

Ok, they weren't fringe playoff teams. But they were teams who we could coast by.

Even now, CP3 defers to teammates when he thinks they should win. If a win is in jeopardy, he wants the ball in his hands.

So a help defender can be inches away from the ball-handler, and you don't consider that to be a full commit?

In that case, what do you think qualifies as a full commit? A piggy back ride?

In the actual play, Harden dunked the ball. CP3 never got the ball. Not sure what you're thinking about.

I guarantee you that anyone following these exchanges thinks you're ignorant and I'm arrogant (but right).

Sure I do. It's called NBA history. Can you find a single example where a bottom feeding team signs an aged veteran to a max contract?

Because of CP3's age. When players age out of relevance, the decline is steep, not gradual. You can get FA's to join, but not star FA's.

Sounds like you do need it explained to you. Father time is undefeated.

 

I understand we all love James and Houston but 13 page’s discussing this is crazy. Lebron is superior to Harden and it’s not that close. There isn’t anyone in the league up with LBJ.

 

Because the list of names was extensive so we can't know for sure.

Wrong again. I'm sure there are stars that they didn't even contact.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm referring to matching salaries.

Wrong again. Let's say that the Knicks trade for CP3 in the last year of his contract (2022). They will most likely be terrible in 2022 which means they will get a good draft pick for 2023. And since CP3's contract expires in 2022, they'll have plenty of cap space to sign a young star in 2023.

So unless they re-sign CP3 for cheap, CP3 won't be around in 2023 to provide mentorship.

Seriously man....critical thinking. Please, for the love of God, I hope you're trolling me. But if you're not....

Let's say the Knicks trade for CP3 now. They become a fringe playoff team in 2021 and 2022. Their reward? Middling draft picks and cap relief for the 2023 season.

But if the Knicks trade for CP3 before the 2022 trade deadline, what's their reward? They'll have sucked in 2021 so they'll have a good 2022 rookie. And they'll have sucked in 2022 so they'll get another good rookie in 2023 as well as salary cap relief.

The Knicks didn't trade Noah b/c they wanted his expiring contract for themselves. They're always rebuilding. The Grizzlies traded Parsons to the Hawks. The Mavericks used the cap space from Parson's expiring contract to sign Harrison Barnes.

I hope you appreciate all the time I'm taking trying to educate you.

 

For the record, I didnt say Harden was better. But I did say that Harden can be the best player in a heliocentric offense on a championship team or just flat out the best player. That's what the other dude was arguing against, he then gave me a series of horrible arguments as to why that wasnt so and how no one wanted to play with him. You can read his drivel if you want, I am done with it.


Frankly though, I'd like to see what would happen if you gave have us Lillard instead and see how we'd stack up against the Lakers. If everyone is so confident Lebron is better, than they should have no problem saying wed lose with someone like Lillard instead of Westbrook.

 

I don’t know who you’re referring to but whoever it is.... is correct.

Anyways, we would still lose. We’d probably push it to 6 games though. Also, in that scenario as far as the playoffs go Dame would be the Alpha and the one closing out games and Harden would be the complimentary piece.

 

Dont quote me bro, I dont respect your opinion. It dosent surprise me that you agree with that dude.

Lol we get in beat in 6? AND you really think Lillard is better than Harden? Even more reason to disregard whatever you have to say. Just keep your nonsense to yourself.

 

You guys see this stat line? Lol

 

I dont think harden cares about a ring anymore after what happened in 2018. Harden played the best defense of his life in the playoffs that year and the league still took the series from him. It doesnt make money for harden to win a championship and prove that his style can win a title. League wont let him, and im sure harden knows it. I mean just look at the cheap calls butler has gotten this whole playoff run lol.

 

There’s thousands of members on this forum. I hate to break it to you but not everyone is going to agree with you. You don’t have to respect my opinion and you can think other people have “horrible arguments” or are speaking ‘drivel’ but that’s just your opinion. If you’re that bothered by differing opinions from yours then may I suggest try using the ignore function?

Now back to basketball... I thought you brought up Lillard cause he would cover some of Harden’s biggest weaknesses such as showing up when it matters most, not being phased by pressure situations, leading 4th quarter comebacks, not getting eliminated by opponents missing their best players, hitting buzzer beaters etc. You know... everything that comes along with “Dame time”.

So yes, I absolutely do think Lillard is better than Harden in the playoffs. I mean what’s the point of adding someone like Lillard otherwise?

 

Dame is better than Steph Curry not harden. I think the NBA world is still waiting to see Curry in a Harden/LeBron role and actually carry a team to the playoffs without being carried by an elite supporting cast

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2020_leaders.html

stats for playoff leaders in the 2020 postseason, Lillards name doesnt appear amongst the leaders in win shares/48 or box plus minus. You know those stats take into account DEFENSE, which harden is arguably a top 10 defender as a guard in the league according to the advanced metrics

 

Curry will never be in a Harden/Lebron role. He's too easy to build around.

 

Lebron right now feeling what it's like to have your efforts wasted by roleplayers missing open shots and having a hobbled superstar partner.

 

I dont care if they agree with me. I care if they give me. Ive spoken with people who I've disagreed with on here. I don't appreciate narrative driven arguments and 4th quarter drivel crap.

I brought up Lillard because he'd be an amazing second option. And he could give Harden the actual support he needs as a second superstar on the team. As good as Cp3 was next to him. Lillard got swept last year with the Warriors missing KD. Lillard got swept by an Anthony Davis led team.

But he's not. He does not make it farther, his teams are usually lower seeded and Harden's playoff stats are better. I dont know what else to tell you. If you still think Dame is better, fine. But lets just end it here if you just wanna dismiss the numbers man.

 

Steph Curry doesn’t dribble without a purpose. He’ll also never have to be a full time iso player cause his game is team friendly.

 

Curry was getting exposed early this year prior to that fugazi wrist injury lol. Curry needs switchable defenders to hide his weakness, he cant play defense effectively and be a productive offense player

 

steve kerr said he didnt want curry to run 70 pick and rolls a game. LOL the truth is Curry cant do it. Anytime his usage goes above 35% he gets hurt lol.

 

3 Rings and 2 MVPS. He’s owned Harden since 2015 and the Warriors will be better then us next year. It sucks. I know.

 

Why does it matter that he can't do it? No coach would ever misuse him that way. That'd be akin to having Harden guard opposing star wings.

 

Well, lucky for him it's a team game and switchable defenders are easy to come by.