not really. the only person that is in a "zone" is gobert bc he's allowed to roam off westbrook who he is assigned to because he doesn't need to worry about him at the 3 pt line. that's already understood by utah. There's a reason why gobert follows wb on the floor and to whatever side hes on.
The other good low post player is Jokic...again, not as good as the all-time greats but good enough...he spends a lot of time down there too...they seem to be doing pretty well. Looking at that video I think it's funny to say Gobert 'Neutralized' him...or that even a good job was done...or a decent job...he tore them to shreds, that was literally a Westbrook highlight video man, I'm not sure that's 'neutralizing' anything. Nah, he was lying. He said that in reference to KP, which might be true, but for say Embiid or Jokic, it's true that their low post possesions are efficent...because they are good low post players. For example.. Harden efficient ISO player at 1.08 PPP (38% freq) Embiid PPP for low posts? 1.15 (33% frequency) Davis? 1.04 So no, he's lying. For some players its inefficient, for Dwight, it is. He sucks at posting up, can only really bowl over people and dunk. For skilled low post players, it can be VERY efficient. The issue is again, no one wants to teach bigs that, they want them to shoot 3s. Also, we both know Embiid's team sucks before you counter with (where is his team at now?)
As soon as the trade went down I was thinking that Westbrook would go down as the most hated Rocket of all time. For me he has surpassed Scottie Pippen and Jeremy Lin. There are some dumb players in the league, I mean what House did was not smart, but if we are talking about dollar for dollar dumbest player, yes it would be Westbrook.
I saw some zone there though definitely but I get what you're saying. It didn't work though, and when the Lakers were running their centers it didn't work. It works for AD because he's...AD. Gobert is just a slow shot blocking center, Russ gets whatever he wants, that's no good for them.
ALSO @HP3 on the PPP... Harden post up PPP is 1.08..the sample size is only 4%, but with it being that high you'd think we'd experiment more with it. I don't know why you're so against him expanding his game and adding more variety to his game.
Yea, him and Embid are exceptions, not the rule. Embid got bounced...and honestly Denver should have lost in the first round. Clippers and Utah both underperformed. Russ had a good game over a 7 game series, that isnt happening. He tore Anthony Davis to shreds too when we first went small. Yet they still put Davis on him. Because again all you have to do is guard the pain, sag off him and there we go. Playoff defense are different. He wasnt lying thouugh, that's the exception not the rule. Do you see Embid or Jokic winning a title anytime soon? Also Jokic is literally the best passing big in the history of the NBA, he's a big BIG exception to that rule. Harden was playing against two top 6 defenses(Lou Dort lol) and got doubled for literally all of the second series against the Lakers. Embid got his 1.15 PPP and got swept in the first round? Like it didnt do anything for him vs the Celtics. The Celtics absolutely wanted him to post up. Philly was 13th in offensive efficiency and and 11/16 for all playoff teams. Of course we were 10th but that's because we had Russ to work with. Anthony Davis was hitting a historically high number of midrange jumpers from the post for his first 7 playoff games. Neither we, nor Portland were good playoff defenses. Also Anthony Davis plays with Lebron lol...what.
Because 4% doesnt mean anything. Its so easy for defenses to adjust to him playing in the post, you didnt even see Leberon playing that much in the post against us. I'm just sayng posting up is not consistent offense. You can do it for a couple possessions, then defenses see through it and its over.
House is probably the dumbest player in the nba since he got kicked out of the bubble. Westbrook is a close second.
Great! He was doing that in January. What did he do in the playoffs? Same performance he's put on the last 4 years. Nothing new or unexpected. He's not a winning player in the playoffs. That was always what was wrong with the trade. Oh and also the embarrassing number of picks we attached to get him
No, Denver shouldn't have lost. You rely too much on that word 'should' Denver won because they were the better team and they might win this series. They SHOULD get credit for that. Embiid got bounced without his 2nd star player, no surprise there. You know good and well you'd excuse Harden or CP3, in fact, you do excuse Harden for not having CP3 for one game but Embiid go a whole series without their 2nd best player and "He got bounced." It doesn't matter if they are exceptions, that's almost literally the point, they are star players. ISO is not efficient either, Harden is the exception. That's why Embiid is a max player, for being an exception. Yeah, that's because the Lakers just made further adjustments, the Rockets did not. Jokic is still playing right now. A lot of low post players can pass? It's kind of a requirement for low post play for that reason. You said it isn't efficient and the stats literally say Embiid posting up is MORE efficient than Harden ISO. maybe Rick was wrong there, the fact is exactly what I said it was, it can be very very efficient with the right player. Rick was just defending KP, that is all, if he had Embiid he'd tell his big butt to get on the low post and work. I'm 100% certain of that. And you know what? The mathball supports it and says it is an efficient shot. 1.10 Those are regular season stats. 1.15 over the post season, of course his team's offense sucks, they have no shooters and his other guy stays hurt. If Embiid had replaced Gobert Utah would be a contending team right now with those shooters. But it still doesn't change the fact that 1.15 is very high for a guy that spends a lot of time posting up which is "Inefficient" well duh, if someone that can't post up, post up's, it's inefficient. I don't know why you're so against Harden posting up more lol, it's odd to me. He does it 4% of the time this past season, 1.08, so it's been working out when he does it. Imagine this conversation... Me: This player we have is shooting 43% from three! It's only on 30 shots or so but maybe we should get him more shots. You: No, he's only shooting that high because it's a small sample size. Me: Okay, so maybe we should see if he can maintain that with more shots? You: No. I don't get it. Nothing is lost if Harden tries to expand his game, the team could at least TRY it and see how that might help the offense. OR We can do this every year where he runs into a wall of double teams and just relies on a step back jumper...because that's ALMOST worked once so let's keep doing that religiously and lets try absolutely nothing else. Don't move him off ball, don't post him up, don't let him add any versatility to his game is what I hear from you.
Denver won because Jamal Murray scored 50 multiple games, Jokic was certainly not the best player that series at all. It was Mitchel and Murray. They arent going to win this series. Just because Clippers are underperforming doesnt mean all of a sudden that Denver is winning a championship. He got bounced with him with the Celtics 2 years ago without Kyrie or Hayward, and the only reason they took Toronto to 7 last year was because they had Jimmy butler. Do you know how much has been made of Ben Simmons and Embid not being able to fit together. He got swept and his post ups dont lead to good team offense. Embid Post ups dont lead to good offense, they were mediocre offensively in the post season this year and in the regular season. Sure but its also mostly because Westbrook sucks. The numbers bare that out. His lineups bare that out, and his defense was garbage..end of story. Yea, Denver is playing well congrats to them. They will not win this series, and I dont see them wining the Championship any time soon. No, they cant. Not like Jokic...that's not even debatable. It isnt efficient for most players. Embid and Jokic are the exception, I said that before. He got swept, his team offense was terrible, what else would you like me to say? Harden's impact metrics offensively (box +/+. VORP, offensive win shares) all of them significantly better than Embid. Yea his post were efficient, but he coulndt elevate the rest of his team's offense and they got swept. The right player's dont grown on trees. And they are literally just two players in the league. Harden and Embid are not the same player. The Sixers are also very far away from winning a championship. Nor is their offense particularly stand out. Rick was defending him but he's also right. Most NBA offenses to run their stuff out of the post. Its just Philly and Denver...and that's it really. Most people dont have Embid. He's a historical talent. You are talking about exceptions and not the norm. Also KP is a way better fit with Luka than he is with Embid. LOL the Mavs literally had the most efficient offense in NBA history WITHOUT post ups. Embid wouldnt make them better, he would make them worse(offensively, defensively is another matter). Maybe....Jokic could make it better....maybe. Yea he's a post player, it works for him. Dude, PPP by iteslf doesn't mean you are creating good offense for your team. Thats not how the stat works. Jokic has a lower PPP for post ups than Embid, but offensively by most impact metrics he's been better than Embid this post season. Yea they do have shooters, what you are you talking about? They had one of the highest three point percentages during the bubble. Ben Simmons is just adding another non shooter to the court though? So how does that work Dude..they post him up because he's good at it. Not everybody in the league is Joel embid...that's not a carte blanch for everyone to start posting up. Because 4% is an extremely low number and he's NOT JOEL EMBID. They have different skill sets. Harden is very obviously not gonna be as good as him. Its not gonna produce consistent offense, anyone looking at Harden posting up would just see that efficiency would not last like that. Why do you think you didnt see Lebron post up more during our series? Because you dont experiment like that in the middle of playoff series? Harden also...isnt good at it and itsnt used to it. You know how easy it is to get Turnovers of a post up? Harden was already having trouble with turnovers on the perimeter how do you think that's gonna work out on the block. They could try anything, Im just telling you its doubtful as hell that it would have changed anything. It wasnt a particularly amazing anything that would have helped us score on the Lakers. It would have just made it easier on them if anything. Harden doesnt run into doubles every year, that only happend this year. And yet he still had the best post season performance of his career. He can do all of that, he can add those little improvements, but that's not winning you a championship as long as Westrook is on his team. His second superstar cant be trusted to back him up. And that's pretty much the bottom line here, he was that bad.
Jokic certainly wasn't hurting his team and he certainly isn't now. His post ups are not hurting the team. Also yeah, I think the Celtics have proven they can do just fine without Kyrie OR Hayward, that still does not mean that his post ups are bad shots. They lead to the same thing HArden's ISOs lead to. open shots for teammates, fouls, and easy buckets for him. Harden is the exception for ISO play man, that doesn't mean it is inefficient. The 6ers are far from winning but Embiid is not the one holding them back. Also, where did you bring up Dallas? I said Embiid swap for Gobert would make them a much better team. Philly's shooters are garbaage, not sure where you got that number from, they were dead last in the playoffs, dead last. That's who he was kicking it out to, garbaaaage. Also, of course he's an exception, that's not even my argument. My argument is that post up play CAN BE EFFICIENT. Hakeem was the exception, Kareem, Yao, but they were still efficient. But when we're talking about a kind of possession and whether that possession is efficient or not, that's why it is used. 1.15 is very high, it's very efficient, it's saying that throwing down low to Embiid is a very efficient play. Offense sucks when your entire team is shooting worse than Westbrook. That's the reason to try it more lol, because it is very low, 1.08 is h igh and it's good, so you'd like to see if you can get more out of that. Also, Lebron didn't need to post up when he can just knife through our "defense" for dunks at will, why post up then? You realize the Lakers experimented with small ball on the fly and then did it better than us? Yes, yes you do experiment, because maybe it works and if it does maybe you beat the team? What you do not do is the same thing over and over when it gets the same crappy results. Yeah, Harden gets doubled every year, they were even doubling him when Westbrook sat, they only didn't when AD was guarding him. I don't care about his performance that much, that's good he had good stats. I care about rings, championships. Harden can have all the stats in the world, will always be behind Hakeem. No one made excuses for Hakeem, Hakeem didn't need a 2nd MVP player, Hakeem didn't even need an all-star, he made it work, he kept his team fighting, he won championships
I didnt say that though. Of course Jokic wouldnt hurt his team, he's one of the best player's in the league. Im not saying they are bad shots per se, just that you have to be really good at passing from the post to generate good offense and neither Embid's offesive impact metrics nor his team's offense as a whole reflects that. I doubt they could be like top 5 offensively....probably unlikely. Well he's actually not, there are a couple other players who are good at it but that's whatever. I agree. Im not saying that. Embid is obviously an amazing player, but I doubt that you can win a championship with him as your best offensive player...I think thats fair. That was in response to you talking about if Rick had Embid. Sure....but that doesnt mean Utah is all of a sudden gone run their offense mostly through post ups. Sure, but those players are way more rare their than what traditoinal NBA offenses do. Its guard penetrations that is the stable of modern NBA offenese. Harden is not any of those players. They are the exceptions we do not have. The last time Harden tried it, he gotta contested mid range 2 out of it. Im actually really glad we only tried it a few times only. It wasnt gonna hold up imo. I could see maybe, doing it more in the clutch...but thats about it. I mean, Lebron was hitting shots, but his real damage to us came in transition and on defense(he was really good at protecting the rim. They didnt experiment, they have played "small" ball before. Its not the first time they have rolled out this lineup this season. Also AD is a unicorn, he' actually really a center, its stupid to play him at power forward in general. He's really just playing his natural position. Also experimenting with Harden post ups(which he doesnt do and it isnt really good at imo), is not the same thing as Lakers going "small." This year's crappy results were the worst in many years. And that's because we have Westbrook. No he doesnt, he didnt get doubled the last 4 years we have lost. I agree with you 100% but ..there is a misunderstanding here, stats are supposed to reflect winning plays. Harden's production were superstar caliber, the best playoffs he's ever had. We all care about winning, Im show you the stats because Harden was very clearly not the problem. You cannot win by yourself. If Westbrook cannot help him by being a winning player than no matter what you arent winning. Harden can post up, move off ball whatever, but as long as your second best player is a net negative on the floor, we will never be successful. Its not the style of play, it was the lack of adjustments from Dantoni and Westbrook's poor play and spacing killing that was the problem. If Harden didnt play well....we could all talk about what he could do differently, but he just had his best post season performance.I find it hard to fault that. I am however, mad he wanted Westbrook. Harden is not Hakeem....but also there arent many out there who arent Hakeem. Even Lebron and Durant had to go to super teams to win. Edit: I leave you the last word bro.
Ha! He got swatted how many times playing the lakers? Gobert isn't afraid of westbrook trying to stop and hit a midrange jumper in fact he'll want that.. just camp the paint and swat him...
