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Nobody wants to see that

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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  2. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    Sounds bad, but as Slate notes, anonymous sources won't cut it.
     
  3. Nolen

    Nolen Member

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    The author is mistaken - it will make no difference if the sources come forward on the record, even if they are four star generals. We've been though this countless times before.
    There aren't any more mythical undecideds to be persuaded. Maybe a few swing state military families, but not enough to make a difference.

    The hypothetical coming forward of the generals would consume the news cycle - maybe for a whole week! The White House would utterly deny it, and their media enablers would dig up dirt on the generals and write editorials on how they are traitors for turning on their commander-in-chief. It sinks to the background noise on top of the mountain of scandals that the trumpers don't care about.

    If Trump's betrayal of Israeli intelligence to the Russians (remember that?) and ignoring Russian bounties on our own soldiers can be excused, overlooked, and equivocated, so will this.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    this guy went on record.
     
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  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Trump has already lost. It is important to pile on to inflict as stinging a defeat as possible for a number of reasons. It's not about winning Montana to get to 400 EVs

    1 discourage the slow motion coup he and Barr are trying to lay the groundwork for with delaying the election talk, postal sabotage, foreign interference, and encouraging vote fraud

    2 prime the military for when/if Trump has to be physically removed in January. This is not a remote possibility. I'm not saying they should remove him, but they should allow the civil authority to do so, if necessary and recognize Biden as c in c.

    3 absolutely punish the **** out of every elected Republican in the Senate who had the opportunity to stop this disaster and chose to remain complicit. They should be hounded by this not only until November but as long as they live. When Susan Collins orders a pizza 10 years from now, the pepperoni should spell out "I think he learned his lesson'
     
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  6. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I would really enjoy watching Trump be embarrassed. Why did you mention Montana? Is that state polling anywhere close right now ?
     
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  7. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Amanda Marcotte
    @AmandaMarcotte
    The reason Trump’s approval rating is so stable is simple: His voters hear “do you you approve of Trump” as “will you admit liberals were right and your are a moron and a racist for voting for someone so obviously terrible?”
     
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Trump hasn't lost anything yet. He is still the incumbent President and has shown he will do anything possible through his office to ensure he wins re-election. I do agree with you that the larger the margin of defeat, the harder it is for him to delegitimize the election results.

    Isn't this already being done?

    The military already said they will not be involved. This is all going to come down to John Roberts.

    I think the key is to investigate Barr and others and prosecute when there is a strong case. William Barr is a disgrace.
     
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  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    John Roberts can't get Trump to obey any of his decisions. That big "DACA rebuke" has literally been ignored. John Roberts can make himself more of an accessory than he already has, which, make no mistake, he has, in his guide of protecting the court which he takes more seriously than protecting non LLC non church Americans. .

    But John Roberts can no more compel Trump to leave office than you or me. Furthermore he probably wouldn't even if he could and convince himself he's doing the right thing. John Roberts is as committed to the project of permanent minority rule over the majority as Bill Barr. He's just more subtle about it.

    In the end the military is going to have to recognize 1 commander in chief. Hopefully they choose the right one.
     
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  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Just to be clear, I am not calling Roberts a hero or wonderfully principled man. He is an expert at giving the left a bunch of "victories" and then waiting for the cases that really make a huge impact and voting according to his views on corporations and conservativism.

    I suspect what would happen is Roberts would vote for whatever position would keep Trump in power and internally validate it by claiming he saved the court in the Republic.

    My point is I can see a situation where Trump used the SCOTUS to legitimize the results to his liking...... as silly as it sounds, for all we know Trump already has plans to case fraudulent votes through foreign actors.
     
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  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    SamFisher and I disagree on the chances of Donald Trump winning reelection but I agree with him that we need to run up the score. There is already a lot of mischief around this election and like a Rockets' playoff game can't leave it in the hands of the refs. This can't come down to Scott Foster making some weird call on an inbounds pass it needs to be a 114-80 pasting where it doesn't matter if one team got 10 more free throws than the other.
     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    My read on Roberts is pretty different. I don't see him making a Bush v Gore type ruling. I think he understands that will further damage the court. I agree that he will do all he can to inject himself or the court into the election. If it comes down to another Bush v Gore situation I see much more of a chance of him pushing the court to not take the case and leave it to the states to decide it.

    For that matter I doubt that Roberts likes Trump or really wants to see him remain in office. Roberts is a Conservative but Trump isn't and I don't think he is beholden to Trump at all.
     
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  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I understand how you're feeling and I've said I don't hate Trump supporters and many of the ones that I know I think are good people even if they support someone that I think is a horrible person.

    Of the Trump supporters that I know personally I would consider them to have principles and there are legitimate grievances that they have. For white older, blue collar and rural voters they have seen some pretty profound shifts in the culture and economy. Things that were certain decades or even just years ago aren't and I can understand how unsettling that could be and the appeal of someone who harkens back to a previous time and further one that does so aggressively and unapologetically.

    What I will keep on pointing out though is that while Trump supporters might have principles Trump doesn't. The only principle he has is enriching himself and his family and any close examination of his record both before he became President and in office shows that.
     
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  14. Nolen

    Nolen Member

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    You're right. I can't disagree with any of your points (though I think Trump can win the EC even if he loses by 3-5 points.)

    I shouldn't let my depsair over the news cycle make me want to give up.

     
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  15. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Jennifer Griffin @JenGriffinFNC
    National Security Correspondent for @FoxNews



    Two former sr Trump admin officials confirm .@JeffreyGoldberg reporting that President Trump disparaged veterans and did not want to drive to honor American war dead at Aisne-Marne Cemetery outside Paris.

    According to one former senior Trump administration official: "When the President spoke about the Vietnam War, he said, 'It was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker'."

    This former official heard the President say about American veterans: "What's in it for them? They don't make any money." Source: "It was a character flaw of the President. He could not understand why someone would die for their country, not worth it."

    I read the source a few quotes from The Atlantic article. This former Trump admin official said, "The President would say things like that. He doesn't know why people join the military. He would muse, 'Why do they do it'?"

    Re: trip to mark 100th anniversary of WW I
    Source: "The President was not in a good mood. Macron had said something that made him mad about American reliability and the need perhaps for a European army. He questioned why he had to go to two cemeteries. 'Why do I have to do two'?"

    President Trump's staff explained he could cancel (his visit to the cemetery), but he was warned, 'They (the press) are going to kill you for this'." The President was mad as a hornet when they did.

    When asked IF the President could have driven to the Aisne-Marne Cemetery, this former official said confidently: "The President drives a lot. The other world leaders drove to the cemeteries. He just didn't want to go."

    Regarding Trump's July 4th military parade, during a planning session at the White House after seeing the Bastille Day parade in 2017, the President said regarding the inclusion of "wounded guys" "that's not a good look" "Americans don't like that," source confirms.

    Regarding McCain, "The President just hated John McCain. He always asked, 'Why do you see him as a hero?" Two sources confirmed the President did not want flags lowered but others in the White House ordered them at half mast. There was a stand off and then the President relented.
     
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  16. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    n/m
     
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  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Yeah, that article highlights how much of a klepto sociopath he really is.

    I don't know about Hitler comparisons, but he'll definitely suck this land bone dry while throwing some crumbs to his white dobermans.
     
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  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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  19. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    My grandfather served three tours in Vietnam, would never talk about it. My step-father served a tour in Vietnam. They offered a promotion if he'd go back but he said he would have never survived a second tour. It scarred him for life.
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    He certainly can win the Electoral College. Nate Silver did an analysis last week showing the % chance of Biden winning the EC depending on what the difference was in the popular vote. If Biden was only +1-3% advantage in the popular he would still only have a 6% chance of winning the EC.
     
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