I have watched them, but it seems other people are much better than me at seeing what the hell is going on in the videos. In any case, you're right, it seems like the thing we don't have video of is how the altercation started. Which is going to be pretty important in determining whether the kid was justified in using lethal force. It could be that he was justified and then maybe he could have been justified then in fending off further attempts to apprehend him. I don't see how, if he's not justified in the first killing, he will be able to argue self-defense in the second. Neither should have been there. Both Rittenhouse and the victims were violating curfew. But I don't think that should make it cut both ways in the sense that they are equally culpable for the violence. I think it cuts both ways in that both sides would have trouble arguing self-defense. As it turns out, only one side need make that argument now because the other side is dead. If Rosenbaum had killed Rittenhouse, he could try to argue the kid was pointing an AR15 at him, which could have some merit, but you'd still have to contend with the fact that Rosenbaum was breaking curfew and instigating fights.
Yes. I've been very consistent condemning looting and arson and especially anyone not from Kenosha should not be there looting and have no problem saying they should be arrested and charged. My opinion isn't based upon outcome. I will say again then Kenosha PD did a terrible job. I know in Minnesota LE didn't do a very good job initially and things spiraled out of control once the they did start enforcing the curfew things calmed down including the protest organizers even started policing their own and stopping people in the protest from destroying property. Two nights ago in Minneapolis when rioting broke out again over a false report the LE acted swiftly and BLM and other community organizers got the word out that it was a false report.
What we know is a 17 year old MAGA, #Bluelivesmatter decided to take an AR (223) from his home in Illinois into the neighboring state of Wisconsin to “protect the private property of property owners in Kenosha”. He does not own any property in Wisconsin and at 17 likely broke the law bringing the gun into Wisconsin and carrying it in the open. He may have broken laws in both Illinois and Wisconsin. He then was at riot locations and an altercation broke out where the deceased attempted to take the gun from him. Ultimately the deceased was shot in the head and killed..... the suspect then called his friend and said he killed someone. Less than ten minutes later he shot to other people pursuing him. Where the suspect will have difficulty is explaining how he could call a friend and say he killed someone if he was in imminent danger before the second round of shootings. I suspect, because he will be tried in Wisconsin, he will beat the vast majority of charges. In addition he has an excellent attorney. What I think happens is his parents will be sued civilly and lose anything they own. This kid ultimately pleads guilty to a gun charge only. He becomes some weird right wing hero like Zimmerman.
They charged him quickly because they don’t want their entire shitty town (Kenosha is a shithole) to burn to the ground. Further the initial way the police handled this (letting him walk away) makes the police and government not exactly look upstanding. So they charge him with high crimes and see what happens, they can always drop some of the charges later. The alternative is the riots get worse, the police chief and chief prosecutor likely lose their jobs, investigators begin combing through everything looking for any proof of past misconduct by the state department and police department.
I think a lot of this is plausible. My understanding is he already has a following among Right wing circles.
You and I some time ago said that blood shed was a real possibility but since then things have only escalated. There are a decent sized group of young right wing extremists that are well armed and play GI Joe.... there is an even larger but less well armed group of left wing extremists that feel the country is headed into an authoritarian governmental model. The local police will not be able to stop it and the national guard and military involvement would likely lead to some serious consequences for years. I don’t really have an optimistic feeling at this point. I am really not looking forward to the night of the election and the days after. It is going to get nasty.
Exactly - it does seem that's what happen. I'm not sure I agree to that, but I get it that they want to protect their image and job first. Justice is secondary. So, why didn't they charge the cop?
I feel weird liking this but I fully agree. Heck I said it yesterday that there is likely going to be violence no matter who won the election and that November might be a very bad month for the country.
Why didn’t they charge which cop? The one in Kenosha? They didn’t charge him for several reasons. The first being that there is a procedure they go through with on the job police shootings. That was pushed for by police unions (which are terrible) and then when 95% of the officers were not being reprimanded civic organizations required a more detailed investigation before any charges are made or the DA formally says they will not file charges. Also involved in all this is a questionable police chief and district attorney that are going to give every possible benefit of the doubt to the officer. The ramifications of charging an officer and then lowering the charges are different as well. The reality is that the police force and the district attorney office are dependent on each other and are connected. Also many of the judges are former district attorneys.
No argument with this part. If you try to take my weapon , I'm shooting you too .... No telling what will happen if the attempt is successful. Fleeing didn't solve the issue ... They weren't simply pursuing him , they attacked him - One kicking him while jumping over him (lucky to be alive) One hitting him with a skateboard while trying to take his weapon , the third pointing a weapon at him. They had every intention of doing him harm - you can clearly hear people saying kick his ass among other things. I'd have shot those people too. Fairly easily explained .... the threat was terminated. Highly likely.
We're in agreement here .... The curfew violations , I'd think are fairly irrelevant on both parts. Seems logical to me that Rosenbaum was the instigator , his actions in the earliest video , he was very confrontational. Then the fact that he's chasing him down and throwing objects at him - He didn't have good intentions. Then you have the fact that Rittenhouse was fleeing him .... If he had any intention of doing him harm , he didn't have to run to do so. That was an attempt at de-escalation which failed. We'll have to wait for the details to come out , I think this case is worth following.
Not at all , just making a general statement. If you try to take my weapon , I'd shoot without hesitation.
If you shoot someone , you are going to jail , even in most self defense cases. In this case , I think they made the arrest so the powder keg didn't explode. Not doing so would likely have led to more protesting / rioting / violence.
I am actually surprised this is the 1st instance of this happening and once Rittenhouse gets the royal treatment from the right wing media somebody else will want some of that attention.
thx... I wish we have accountability. That’s not possible without truly independent prosecutors and judges, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. I hope we can have a new independent body to investigate any and all officer shooting. Would be a good start and go a long way to calm thing down.
As a lawyer... this is the biggest, self serving load of **** I have seen in decades. It may work in Wisconsin depending on the jury pool.
