this is the point I’m trying to make. I’m no Trump defender, didn’t vote for him in 2016, nor will I vote for him in 2020. I’m not a member of any party. I’m the guy you should be trying to convince to vote for Biden. the tactic of “racist racist bigot orange man bad racist ” will not work. It didn’t work in 2016, and it won’t work this year.
What about the issue of ignorance? I'm not saying you personally are ignorant, but many low information voters like the one you are depicting are very very susceptible to propaganda. Ex: Biden never said he would defund the police. Quite the opposite. However we all know many of those low information voters that you say Biden should be reaching out to will hear over and over and over again the propaganda that Biden wants to defund the police. What is Biden or the Dems supposed to do about that to win voters like yourself over if ALOT of those voters don't put in the time or effort to not become suckers to propaganda that the media refuses to really combat for those low information voters?? Biden has many policy issues I know of that low information voters will not know because they don't care to seek that out, and will not watch a Joe Biden TV or internet ad. How is it that Joe Biden takes the blame for the ignorance factor? Joe Biden held a really great speech where he walked through his job infrastructure plan. This is exactly the type of message that his campaign is trying to get to you to convince you like you are saying he should. Why is he to blame when it's not a priority for voters like you to learn about it? Why are antics like Trump pulls the only thing that breaks through to you guys? I just don't get this. I get that the Democrats NEED to do better to get through to low information voters, but at one point do we stop blaming the Democrats and start shifting the blame to just straight up IGNORANCE??
Ignoring all the outright conflict of interest, corruption and how that will impact the US democracy, image and standing over the long term... The ACA repeal failed because of a single vote from John McCain. Saying that Trump didn't try ... that's not the case. He did try, he just got one Rep standing up against it at the time in the Senate to block it. Outside of that, legislation, lawsuits (still pending for a Supreme court ruling) and EO were attempted to diminished the ACA, but incompetent so far has lead to some but not significant impact. The ACA is still standing in spite of Trump's attempts to get rid of it, not because Trump didn't try. This is, indeed, true of many politician - they promise the moon but they run into lots of headwind and end up south of the promise. But, hey, if the supreme court rule ACA is unconstitutional after the election, it's gone and you can thanks Trump for that. There wont' be a replacement either - that indeed was an empty promise. "I alone can solve" problem and I only hire the best was a dismal failure. One drastic result: embarrassing and unacceptable failed response to COVID with needless excessive death, shutdown continue, schools scare to be back to norm and we are no where close to the EU or Asian-new but quite acceptable norm since they have mostly been able to contain the virus. We will probably end up at 200k+ death (67x 911, 3x Vietnam war) and an economy that will take at least 3-4 years to recover, and a stock market that is now completely out of touch with mainstreet (you can thx the fed for propping up the market - I still haven't a clue how the fed can unwind without destroying the market of if the market will forever be dependent on the fed). One promise that he did deliver to selected american is his massive tax cut that permanently and mostly benefit the top while some middle class have their taxes raised. All American will face a daunting task of balancing future needs with a ballooning debt caused by this tax cut. ... those are some of the big ones... there are other promised that he delivered on and others that he did not. My overall point - yes, while there are many empty promises, drastic changes can and do happen. 2 deadly wars happen with Bush Jr. ACA happen with Obama. Huge tax cuts for the wealthy and massive failure in response to Covid happen with Trump (and to me, a democracy in danger and in decline).
Don't know why you'd expect a shift left from Trump. That makes no sense. This is who he is. He'd have an easier time winning re-election if he shifted left now instead of later. You maybe hadn't noticed, but ACA is already dead. Trump couldn't pull out the root, but he completely sabotaged the market mechanics so it won't work. Hardly any plans offered, little consumer benefit, insurance companies can't make money. Trump can just leave the body to rot where it lies. Anyway, if Trump wins again, I take it as the soul of America is more lost than I'd wanted to believe. I think moderates would lose power in the Democratic party and the progressives would be ascendant. Politics will get more crazy, not less.
538 has it at 30% to 70%. It's funny, but I think the "trump can't win" is coming mainly from the Right (and from @Os Trigonum who is a far radical left). I haven't seen anyone here on the left, in the middle said Trump has no chance of winning or even a very slim chance. In fact, many THINK he has a higher than 30% chance (it's the after-effect of what happen in 2016 )
I agree. I have liberal friends that value me as a person as well as conservative friends just as well. Isn’t this how it should be ? Very good people on both sides
I understand your point, and it's a point brought up by quite a few on this board (@Os Trigonum, @tinman, @Corrosion, etc...sorry if I didn't name everyone) that have stated repeatedly that they don't really belong to a party, find themselves somewhere on the outside of both, and aren't planning to vote for Trump in 2020. It is a very valid point that those on the left should heed along with the idea of needing to compromise (it's really not a bad word) to get some of their policies through. This is especially true if Trump is not elected, where does everyone go from there? How many Biden voters will wake up the next day, suddenly realize what policies are being implemented...and immediately go back to watching FOX News...starting the whole cycle over again where the GOP takes over Congress in 2022 and another Trump-like figure is elected as president in 2024 (if not Trump himself). At some point, "he's a freaking racist...that should be enough" or "he's a complete idiot who lies all the time" isn't enough. Maybe it will be at some point, but it's not enough in the present day (and I hate this fact with every bone in my body, but I have to be a realist). At some point, you have to convince people with what you actually plan on doing to include the willingness to compromise or they'll just wait two years and vote to change everything back...hoping that the next time won't see a Trump-like leader installed. Honestly, that's the only way that they even have a chance of being able to implement anything like Nationalized Health Care, UBI, etc this century. The left has to gain power, maintain trust, and retain power and the only way they do that is by including as many people as they can into their fold. If everyone is labeled a racist, bad person, sexist, etc because they disagree with one or two parts of the platform...they'll just sit home, vote for a 3rd party, or switch to the other side. If their voice isn't welcome, they'll go somewhere else. It's a delicate balance, especially with so many different backgrounds and cultures mixed in, and it isn't fair that the GOP has a cult that they've built that will continue to back them no matter what, but life isn't fair...so you have to do the work if you want it bad enough.
How many on the right are truly looking for compromise, understanding, and bipartisanship tho? Look at the rhetoric that is commonly employed by those on the right. Look at the way they continuously disregard, misrepresent, or outright lie about facts. U could even look at many of the right wing posters on here. Do they look like the type that are looking for compromise? That party is being taken over by the MAGA cult.
Dude you are doing nothing new there are all ready 3 other posters with your same schtick, nobody needs to convince you of who to vote, you need to decide yourself the choices can't be starker. I guess you got tired of telling liberals what they need to do in the garm and decided to come in here. It does you no favors to ignore post that prove you wrong it just shows you are trying to stir **** up and are not discussing things honestly. You still trying to tell us Trump will start leaning left?
not ignorance...bias. When you have bias, ignorance follows. It simply isn’t true that you can give the same facts to everyone and they will all come to the same conclusion. let me give an example from the right. Trump said the neonazis at Charlottesville were “very fine people”...except he didn’t. Read the transcript...he never said that...just the opposite actually. Yet this has been repeated by tons of media outlets and by Biden himself. It’s a lie. as the left believes the right is full of ignorant racists that want the return of Jim Crow laws, the right believes the left is full of Marxist anti-christians that want to set up the gulags for any that don’t conform to modern gender theory. Stated simply...They believe far left liberals are more dangerous than Trump. The best place to start is to put yourself in the shoes of those you disagree with and try to understand them. This is what opened me to the left...not the screaming or ranting, but the acknowledgement that they exist for a reason, to serve a purpose. Just as the right does.
I wanted to respond to this. From what I see of the current Republican party I don't think there is that much regional differences. The Trump supporters that I know in MN seem to hold remarkably similar views to Trump supporters in TX and CA. WV Trump supporters might be more interested in coal but that hasn't stopped hearing from MN Trump supporters talking about how important coal is. As the party has become more of a Trump party many of those who don't buy into that have either left, forced out or what we say in 2018 lost. One of the consequences of the Democratic take over of the House many of the more moderate swing Republicans lost their seats leaving the ones left more tied to Trump. Also things like Fox News, Breitbart and social media mean that Trump supporters no matter where they are are getting largely the same material.
More importantly, what will Trump people like you do when he loses, despite all of the cheating and sabotage? Blow up federal buildings or post frog pictures but generally go along with the idea that some shared version of a non white supremacist country is a worthwhile goal? If America is to be a going concern it's imperative that you and your fellows rejoin the mainstream...or be brought to heel, as you were in the 1860s You have quite a bit to answer for over the last four years, to us, and your wives girlfriends mothers
Ray Ray my man I agree with everything you posted here but Fins and none of the people you mentioned are serious independents except maybe corrosion he is at least more center than the others. There is no trust to really build with the majority of Republicans just look at how Obama bent over backward to build that trust so far as to use their own policies to build a consensus and they continually spit in his face. How much more compromise could there be. This generation of republicans are for the most part lost and Democrats will always be evil on face value, luckily they are alienating a lot of their supporters so hopefully moderation will come to the fore.
