Kenosha police shoots black man multiple times in his back in front of his children, declares curfew

There was a warrant for his arrest.

 

For the last 30+ years there has been a strong emphasis on police being protected from the public, within the department. Decades ago there were a lot of police shootings and as a result, departments began training police to protect themselves and when to identify deadly force as acceptable. Couple that with police immunity and in many cases the attitude has been better safe than sorry..... shoot first and then worry about the legal ramifications later, very few officers were found guilty and the public in general had the attitude that the police would not act unreasonably. This attitude has been brewing in departments and in district attorney offices for many, many years.

So you have an officer, who is doing a job..... being told to protect themselves, in an environment where there are far more guns than 50-60 years ago, where the news reports police shootings, where police officers are often ex-military, where they are treated above the law.......... what is happening now isn't shocking.

Couple that with the remnants of systemic racism, lack of economic equality for people of color and the less overt racism against black people (as seen in the outcomes in medicine when a white doctor treats a black patient) and you are going to have serious problems.

 

I couldn't imagine ignoring officers who have guns pointed at me and doing what he did. I think he was trying to make a statement and even expecting to be shot by doing what he did. But, the white officers should have let it play out further. The only way shooting him in the back would have been justified is if they saw him reaching for a gun when he leaned into the car. Even if he grabbed a gun, they could have shot him before he even turned around to shoot at them. After all the crap that has gone down, cops aren't learning a damn thing about dealing with situations better. So, black lives matter doesn't seem to be making much of a difference in my opinion. Cops still going to shoot black people. And, now it seems you almost have some black men goading cops into shooting them by ignoring the cops' instruction like this guy. I don't think black lives matter means you can now ignore cops and do what you want to do in their presence no matter how suspect. But, the problem remains in that cops are still too quick to shoot in any situation and unloading a clip like that is way overboard imo.

 

I think this is spot on. I've heard LE say "It's better to be tried by twelve, than carried by twelve." in that when in any doubt it is better to shoot and worry about the legal ramifications later than possibly get shot. I think that attitude is very prevalent in the force especially with "warrior training" that focuses on the idea that they are fighting a war and it's less about "Protect and Serve" and more about "Enforce and Survive."

 

As soon as he opened the car door and began reaching inside, he was dead. Sure, maybe they should have tackled him to the ground earlier, but the same people decrying the shooting would be screaming about excessive force.

 

Social workers sign up for dangerous calls. They take parents' kids away from them.

Yeah but what are the odds? 1 in a 100? 1 in a 1000?

What are the odds that this whole sad affair does not end in gun shoots if the dude was white?

 

They should have never let him open that door.

 

He could have been tackled once he was going into the car.

 

Meh. Some social workers avoid those positions. And going out into the field is far more dangerous.

 

**** off. Not complying doesn't warrant shots in the back. American cops have an issue with ego fragility where not complying is lethal. Cops in other developed countries handle not complying far more leniently mainly because other countries don't have such hero worshiping complexes for "men with guns" (military and law enforcement) proffesions in America which leads to douchebros flocking to the proffesion.

 

That isn't the only factor. Ego is a large factor. Non-compliance really offends many cops personally.

 

I don't have a firm opinion yet whether the shooting was justified but from what I can see the LE shouldn't have let it go to far.

I do believe there are times and reasons for use of force and use of less than lethal force such as restraint and compliance holds should be used long before lethal force like using a fire arm. There was a case that was posted on D&D a few weeks ago regarding a driver who was not complying sitting in his car and livestreaming when an LEO took him out by force. It wasn't nice but I did feel that in that incident it was justified to use force. The stop ended up being bad and the LE should answer for that but the suspect survived. In a case like this one if (and I don't know what orders were given by the LEO during the situation or even why the LEO drew their guns when they did) he wasn't complying and was going around the car in defiance of clear orders I don't see any problems with restraining him. What I see in the video though is that the LE already have their weapons drawn. Now I agree that should be a signal for Blake to stop whatever he's doing but once firearms are drawn the decision to use deadly force is already made and there really isn't non-lethal option there for the LE.

 

I agree that certainly is a factor and from what we're seeing that was a factor in the George Floyd case.

The warrior training though teaches LE that they are constantly under threat and that they can't take any chances. It's your life or theirs. In the Philando Castile case I think that was the case. From the video I think it's obvious that Yanez was scared once he heard that Castile had a gun and reacted out of unreasonable fear.

 

No, I don't think many people would be complaining about excessive force had they tackled him to the ground when he tried to run. Instead 2-3 cops let him go all the way around his car, OPEN up his door and start getting into his car before shooting him seven times.

Go watch it again, it was absurd. He didn't even really run around the car... he freaking walked all the way around his car, stopped to open the door and then started to get inside his car when they shot him. There were numerous times to grab him and stop him and they didn't.... they literally waited for him to open the door to kill him. Not even just shoot him, but kill him.... they shot 7 times........ all of this while there were 3 children in the car that they let the man get into.... the three kids were under 8 years old.

I am sorry, but this goes beyond piss poor police work, this was a complete and utter disregard for the children in the vehicle and the man that they could have stopped numerous times while he WALKED back to the driver door.

As an attorney we are taught to wait for all the evidence..... but this is bad.

 

In the other situation you are referring to I remember the pretext for the cop to search was he smelled weed (they found none). In that situation if you know you haven't interacted with weed and you know there isn't a single trace of weed in the car which makes you conclude the cop is full of bs, what do you do? Comply to an illegal search? Because my problem with just allowing the cops to do with you as the please and then litigate after the fact is that normal Joes usually can't afford the time and money it takes to fight illegal practices by cops and cops know this and take advantage of this.

I think he had every right to not comply.

 

They never should have let him near the car with kids in it.... they never should have let him go around the front of the car.... they never should have let him near the driver door. They never should have let him open the driver door..... they never should have fired 7 times.

There is a lot of "never" in this case already. I cannot see how they get out of this..... if they view him as a threat then don't let him walk toward the driver door....... if he isn't a threat then don't shoot him 7 times.

 

I am not American so maybe I don't understand what the protocols are for officers. But, the blatant disregard by that person to the requests being made by the cops is disturbing behavior. It happens all too often based on these shooting videos. Police officers don't seem to have a handle on the control element of the situation either. Is it a mixture of factors such as systemic racism/inequality/low barrier to entry for officers/training/lack of respect of authority? Seems very complicated, good thing you guys have a great leader at the helm.

 

I will respectfully disagree regarding the sense of smell as probable cause but can rehash that in that thread.

In this case I'm making the point that there is such a thing as reasonable use of force by LE. My response was to Supermac claiming that people will complain anytime LE use force even if it's such thing as restraint and compliance techniques.

 

He could have tackled him at any point... the man was walking. Also the officer that went behind the car could have blocked his entry into the car. They didn't do that, because that requires effort and the officer could get hurt tackling the man.... so instead they just kill the man in front of 3 children under 9 years old and in front of all the other people present.

I was a very strong law and order person, it was my job enforcing laws... but it has become abundantly clear to me that police forces in the USA do not deserve the level of respect they have received. The fact that some people are defending this shows just how brainwashed we as a nation are.

 

I just see using "smell" as a reason to search is a giant loophole where cops can willy nilly search without consent because how do you disprove a cop smelling something? The illegal search and seizure clause in the constitution is essentially rendered useless because of this in my opinion.