Calling someone a b**** is certainly misogynistic as it specifically is tied to being a woman. Also, I doubt this man would have confronted a male congressman who he disagreed with by yelling at them while they were walking out of a building. His behavior was misogynistic. He knew he messed up to the point he had to address it and refer to the fact that he had daughters as part of his defense. He basically is admitting her sex played a role in what he did.
First off, I'm really glad you are sharing your POV on this, and while I disagree, I welcome that you are taking a side. The problem I have with your perspective is that the logic doesn't make sense to me. If AOC is playing politics and seeking to use this to pander to her base, it seems that she would have written an op-ed piece or spoke to the press in a more direct fashion. Instead she spoke to her colleges in congress to make a point. That doesn't align with pandering and trying to play politics with this. Plus since she has said what she has, she hasn't made any further comment. She hasn't appeared on a news program to be interviewed or anything. Even if she did appear on programs or wrote and op-ed, it's not clear that means she is pandering or playing politics. But the fact that she has not is a clear indication that she was genuinely upset by what he did and felt that she had to stand up for herself. And having done that, she moved on.
Ok, and that's something you take issue with? She's basically saying that Yoho's attack on her wasn't personal but about how men feel they can treat women that way.
When did AOC say she didn't hear it? And how is being called a effing b**** a perceived insult and not an actual one?
you're a sexist for thinking she's not tough enough to take a perceived insult on the chin. if you were an egalitarian you would be arguing that she should toughen up and ignore it. Instead she is a wilting flower who needs protection.
im confused , anyways @Sweet Lou 4 2 i don’t think you can take his apology afterwards seriously ... or as relevant information on his misogyny. he was expected to say something like that . Especially when the criticism about him was extrapolated to all women . if he says “sorry , I shouldn’t have called her a b**** , I lost my temper .” He would get hounded for not mentioning how misogynistic his comment was and the apology wouldn’t have had the desired effect . Oh and @Os Trigonum i do think she was pandering to an extent , or maybe these are real pent up feelings and her experience. Either way , I can’t get mad at a politician for pandering . One could argue Yoho was pandering to his constituents by calling her a b**** in the first place . **** he gets to pander both ways , he can make the comment and then a half-hearted bs apology that the people that liked the comment will just ignore and say “he was forced to apologize” in my unprofessional opinion you don’t call a lady a b**** and then through pressure “learn” that you should have never said that and reevaluate how you think about women and invoke your daughter/ wife etc . yoho May hate women for all I know , he may think of them as lesser . But IMO b**** can’t equal instant sexism / misogyny whatever you wanna call it . If that’s the case what do we call females who are exhibiting b**** like behavior ? Assholes ? Dicks ? Oh so now we can only use insults that are male body parts or are on both males and females ? We all know cunt is off the table . What about a boob ? b**** is a ****ing middle school insult . Immature , yes . Unprofessional, yes . Sexist , I’m in the firmly maybe leaning no camp . 95% of the time anyone calls anyone a b**** it’s for reasons other than sex . Women call other women b****es all the time . Is it automatically NOT sexist in that case ? I know plenty of “traditional” women that have stronger views on gender roles than many guys I know . Did yoho call any other congresswomen b****es ? It’s likely that Aol angered him for some reason and he called her a ****ing b**** . She won . I was interested in the story . What conniving maneuver did she pull off that pissed him off , was HE just being a b**** ? I’d like to hear about a Democrat outmaneuvering the Republicans for once . Instead we get this .
I think context is key. But some would argue that a woman calling another woman a b**** is reinforcement of misogynistic culture. Even a woman calling a man a p***y in playing into a misogynistic culture where men are supposed to be a certain way. When someone wants to call a man weak, they call him a p***y. When a woman acts tough and strong, they call her a b****. Both reinforce the idea of what a woman should be and what a man should be in a patriarchal culture. But regardless of what you think, it's not proper in a work environment to refer to a colleague as any of those terms and indeed it is sexist in a professional context to call a woman a b**** for having a different opinion than you. A girl steals someone's boyfriend, you might call them a b****, but do you call a congresswomen a b**** for saying poverty is a cause for crime? Yeah, that's definitely crossing the line into sexist behavior.
OP, Ted Yoho & Miranda Devine are the real b****es. And press secretary is still a lying b****. Sorry, Ted Yoho. Having daughters doesn’t get you a sexism free pass.
I understand where you are coming from with the “reinforcing misogynistic culture” etc .. I don’t even know if you believe that given your said some people .. I can see the argument but , I dont think it holds up under scrutiny and when you start extrapolating it . I hate to sound like a republican here (and I didn’t watch her speech) but if she’s outraged about this she should be equally outraged at the persistence and prevalence of “b****” and “ho” in rap music . I’d argue it’s worse there because they didn’t even do any Thing to warrant Being called it . At least AOC (in yoho’s mind , pissed him off ) I agree that it was absolutely unprofessional. But sexist , I just ain’t sure . like you said context is key . I think that he hasn’t called any other women b****es makes this more about AOC personally.
The use of b**** and ho in rap music is generally sexist and again represents a misogynistic culture - again context is key though on any individual usage of the word. As for AOC, I think she has absolutely every right to respond to someone who verbally attacked her and then that someone went on congressional record to excuse his own behavior. She went up there and said her piece about it - she wasn't there to decry every usage of the word b****, but she has a right as it is her workplace to go up there and respond to a man who not only she feels mistreated her, but she feels went in front of all her colleagues where he justified his behaviors and lied about what he said. I don't get why a lot of people say that if you call out one injustice, you have to call them all out. As if you donate to one charity you are suppose to donate to them all? If you decry one incident of violence, you have to decry them all? Humans just aren't built to do that. You pick your battles for whatever reasons you have. It's one thing to be hypocritical for contradictory stances, it's another thing to choose the battles you want to fight for whatever motivations. As for the argument not holding water when extrapolated, I'd say, extrapolate it and let's see. This is debate and discussion, the purpose of us having this debate it to learn after all - otherwise we just shouting at one another.
I’m mostly in agreement . I just watched a clip of her speech . All I know about yoho is that he called her a b**** , I have not watched his apology . She’s right that it’s BS , I said as much earlier . I disagree that calling someone a b**** is abusing . While from what I’ve seen she did not single out the word “b****” , what else could she be talking about . As far as I know “****ing b****” was the only thing he said . I think I’m somewhat aligned with the idea that when you start to make things bigger than yourself and invoke that his words were an attack on all women then... either you really believe that , or your playing a bit of politics . And if you really believe that then why have you not spoken up about rap music before ? I agree it’s not “hypocritical” and that you do have to pick your battles . She can say whatever she wants , but when you try to go big picture with your argument I have the right to bring up another example. (Your as in AOC) . I understand this happened to her , but she’s never felt this way about that language towards women before ? as far as extrapolating it ... a few questions . How can we be sure we live in a patriarchal misogynistic society ? do those terms really reinforce what women “should” be or rather just what the stereotype is ? since it’s language related what other words are abusive and misogynistic? How do we know ? Imo context matters so much more than the actual language . I’m no expert on the context of this And I don’t plan to be . But when words alone are classified as abusive then that’s a problem . The idea behind the patriarchal structure argument (as I understand it ) is that it’s not the word itself it’s the weight behind it that does the damage ... the damage in this case being associated with the female gender as a negative. what if you called a girl aggressive ? Even if she was not being aggressive. But , because of the societal structure we have , what would pass as normal behavior for a man is seen as aggressive. You could argue that’s a misogynistic attitude. But are we gonna decry calling women aggressive ? Only if it meets a certain societally accepted barometer or genderless aggression ? I just don’t see it as so much worse that he used the word b**** instead of say “ *******” . I would argue it’s equally inappropriate work behavior to call your coworker a ****ing ******* . If she was just talking about the workplace , that would be one thing . But when she said that by using that word he gave permission to other men to use that word to refer to his wife and daughters ... like wha ? As if you needed to ask permission . Generally when you call someone a b**** you don’t care if they or members of their family like it . Same with any insult . Can Dave Chappelle use the N word in his comedy or is that reinforcing a racist societal structure? imo words have to be off limits and the context and actions are what matters
AOC has skills , you have to admit. She denied Amazon to take over a poor neighborhood because she convinced New York that keeping them poor and letting Amazon create high paying jobs like management and software engineers was the best route. Those jobs went to Viriginia and spread across Amazon's other locations. As for Long Island.. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/14/tech/amazon-hq2-long-island-city/index.html That was supposed to change when Amazon opened a massive headquarters nearby. There would be thousands of new workers looking to spend their tech money on drinks and haircuts and groceries and apartments. Then it all fell apart. "Business is horrible. It's hard. We don't have foot traffic," said Gianna Cerbone-Teoli, a Long Island City resident who has owned Manducatis Rustica, a restaurant on Vernon Boulevard, for 11 years. "It was a great opportunity and we didn't allow it." This article was last year, but this year we got the Coronavirus and no new promise of new people wanting Italian food. But AOC is cute so therefore not her fault @Os Trigonum
