To Serve & Protect, Volume XXVII

Because your wife’s name is Karen?

 

It very well could be.

 

This.

I have worked as a para and professional that has had to take these courses as well as self defense and take down and control courses.

Cops also get these courses and more in depth training, if I had done this to anyone in a facility I worked in I would have been fired, I can't understand how Cops are held to lower standards.

 

I didn't say he shouldn't be fired. I stated that we have a limited amount of knowledge about the situation and that the LEO could've handled the situation better.

 

Just to add to the above. Clearly the LEO lost his patience and as said he could've handled it better. If the PD fires him because of that that is understandable. We have to consider though that Derrick wasn't complying to a lawful order and while not violent was resisting. Whether this stop was justified or not, or giving the order to get out of the vehicle those are certainly up to debate. What I would be very careful about though and frankly the whole BLM movement needs to be careful about, is magnifying encounters like this, which certainly aren't nice and don't reflect well on LE, to the level of major outrages against justice and require greatly limiting things like probable cause.

 

Honestly, I just find this attitude baffling. The driver could have been calling the cop a mother****in ofay and it would not have justified his ragegasm. This is a "major outrage against justice". Don't you understand that a significant factor in the level of police violence against citizens are interactions like this that either lead to actual physical resistance which escalates horribly and/or which colors every interaction those citizens have with cops in the future. Again creating a hostile dynamic more likely to end in violence.

 

None of the people you are talking to care about Derrick's behavior or, by extension, Derrick. They want to hold cops to tough standards, be patient, and pleasant no matter how stupid, immature, insubordinate, and disrespectful someone is acting, and don't hold dudes like Derrick to any standard whatsoever.

They don't really care about Derrick nor do they expect much from him. Driving with a suspended license, expired plates, and smelling like weed if all true, is all fine, because a cop with emotional issues acted in kind with him. Derrick doesn't need any correcting cause they don't expect much better from him.

The vast majority of these encounters are just the natural outcome of two or more people with various internal problems meeting and having to deal with a stressful situation. All we need is for one of these people to have some sense and fortitide and we wouldn't be discussing this at all. Derrick could have just accept his tickets, fought them in court later if need be, consented to a search that he knew would result in nothing and be on his way. The cop could have been assertive without all of that emotion, given an appropriate amount of warnings, and just pulled Derrick out of the car with appropriate force and without any anger.

 

Case in point. It doesn't matter to this guy what Derrick did. It's okay to treat cops like ****. I'm absolutely positive that you wouldn't raise your son to act like Derrick did, though.

Of course, I agree that it doesn't justify the behavior of the cop. We should all strive to respect everyone even if it is true that we don't all have self-respect. This cop was disrespected, but he could have still respected Derrick and his badge by handling himself like an adult and not a 10 year old emtoionally disturbed boy in a man's body.

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth but this reads as you saying that the officer was justified for this escalation because he was not complying.

Yes the guy is absolved of blame but the Cop wildly overreacted and him going for the neck 1st was not in line with any take down procedure I have been taught.

I really don't understand why you are being so deferential to the cop.

 

There are 2 things we know from this encounter. He was stopped for an expired sticker and the police claim they smelled pot. Both of these have proven to be false. Anyone who believes this was just an honest mistake by all the officers involved is incredibly naive.

This stop should never have been made and if they honestly stopped him because they honestly believed the sticker to be expired, they should have immediately let him go once they realized their mistake.

 

This..... I simply do not, and cannot believe that they made an honest mistake on both accounts.

 

How was Derrick disrespected.

He never said anything to the officer that I remember.

 

Except that we don't know how violent this situation got. My understanding is that Derrick wasn't killed and it's not clear to what extent he was harmed. Obviously the video is disturbing but jumping to a conclusion that this ends violently and then saying that we need to do away with using the sense of smell has probable cause is an overreaction. It dilutes the significance of situations that are much more clear cut.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This isn't a murder, we don't even know to what extent this is excessive force yet you're treating it like it's one of the many unambiguous outrages that we've seen.

 

I read a couple of articles and none stated that the sticker was actually current. That charge was subsequently dismissed or dropped, but that doesn't mean the sticker wasn't expired. I've had those types of charges dropped before once I renewed the expired sticker.

As for the alleged smell of weed, just because they didn't find any weed, doesn't mean they didn't smell weed. So I don't know how you could say that the smell was proven false. It's possible that they made it up, maybe even probable, but you are still required to get out of your car so the cops could conduct a search.

If the search violated civil rights, I have no idea, get a lawyer and fight it. From what I have been reading in this thread, the laws and procedures involved in this stop are regularly abused, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or that they are necessarily wrong.

If in the process of investigating a possible crime, you find evidence of another crime or crimes you still investigate the other crimes, no? Do you really expect cops to be like, my bad, your sticker is current, so I'll ignore the suspended license and the smell of weed, sorry to waste your time?

If you have to ask that type of question after watching the video, it's very unlikely that you will agree with answer, but I'll give it to you anyway.

Derrick was being disrespectful when he refused to comply with his directive to exit the vehicle first and foremost, but also when he teased him about being calm, and also when he said people on YouTube would call him a dumbass, which was his passive aggressive way of calling the cop a dumbass.

 

Legally yes if you don't comply to a lawful order then the LEO can enforce that order. If you call that escalation then yes that is escalation. Now I whether the reason for the order and how the order is enforced is certainly up to debate but we don't know clearly how it got to this point and what happened after.

Regarding control around the neck watch wrestlers, or even in Judo what we call the high grip. A lot of times the grip is around the neck but it's not a choke. The idea is by moving neck and head the body will follow.

Also what you consider deference to the officer is limiting my observation to what is seen on the video with what knowledge I have regarding the legal issues. In all of these situations I think we need to be very careful for the reasons I've stated. That's one reason why I didn't come out and say that Rashard Brooks killing was unjustified right away.

 

We should hold LE to tough standards. I agree that because of the power they wield we definitely need to hold them to high standards What I'm arguing about is regarding this particular case and one reason why I've said we can't look at every case the same. Not every case rises to the level of major outrage that requires a fundamental change that might have other negative consequences.

 

This line had been in a number of articles i have read:

"No evidence of any crime was found in Mr. Thompson’s vehicle.”

And you really, really, really believe they smelled pot? Really?