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STOCK MARKET: Let's talk stocks and investing

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by SWTsig, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. adoo

    adoo Member

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    thanks for sharing the info; did some analysis, i also think that it'll cool down a bit, as it is way overbought

    i've constructed a synthetic PUT, via selling a bearish call spread

    bto jul 90 CALL
    sto jul 85 CALL, w a limit order $2.20 net credit

    i believe that it will be < 85 by Jul expiraton​
     
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  2. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    Thanks for the explanation. I was referring to stuff like this:


    [​IMG]
    Both Robinhood and TD sell to Citadel. Citadel got fined for misleading clients, but the practice of taking the opposing side of the trade at a price that isn't the best for the the client doesn't seem to be illegal. With better lawyer worded statements, I don't see why Citadel wouldn't be doing something similar today as they are still paying for order flow.
     
  3. adoo

    adoo Member

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    i have had similar experience w Schwab, but not often, on both buy and sell limit orders, where i was filled at a better price than my limit. on 2 or 3 occasions, where
    i had placed a market order to buy, i was filled w a price that was lower than the lowest bid price.

    from this, i can infer that Schwab works w MMs to get the best price for clients​


    it does say that the broker is trying to get the best price for clients
     
    #10503 adoo, Jun 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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  5. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    I used to work on order routing engines and other related stuff years ago for a brokerage, but I don't know what's going on nowadays since I'm no longer in the industry, but internalization, routing algorithms, etc. was a big money-maker for a lot of brokerages if executed correctly. There are all sorts of pass-through fees, rebates, etc. per order that may initially determine which ECN an order is routed.

    Most retail investors don't give a flip as long as the orders fill, to be honest. It's the real day-traders or people moving big blocks that will scrutinize execution prices and execution venues. Mom & pop usually just care about a fill and whether or not they got in or out of their positions.

    Most of the zero-commission brokerages (which is damn-near everybody in the mainstream nowadays) are going to sell order flow to somebody (back then it was Knight, Citadel, Citi, etc.), so if you're trying to avoid or are worried about that, you can try going with a brokerage that offers direct access/direct routing capabilities, but like I said, if you look at 99% of TD Ameritrade or Schwab accounts, none of them cares to this level. I do know a lot of clients that do care often chose Interactive Brokers back in those days, but even then, very few of IB's trades are direct-routed.

    I'm not a day-trader -- I keep my stocks for months and years, so most of my stuff is at TD Ameritrade because I like all the research and ability to keep multiple accounts of different types in one location.

    As an FYI, I managed to find the 606 disclosure filings for some of the brokerages to see the distribution of their trades and how they're routed. As you can tell, hardly anybody on these platforms uses direct routing and most are at the "mercy" of the brokerage routing engines, HFT outfits, etc. Also interesting to see how much they make off of pimping these orders :

    TD Ameritrade
    Robinhood
    IB
    ETrade
    Schwab
     
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  6. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    Thanks; IB's percentage of direct routing looks high? I think it's only the "lite" zero fee accounts that route orders to HFT; on my account I can even choose which exchange to route to if i turn off their smart routing.
     
  7. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    Awesome, hahaha
     
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  8. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    Virtu's stock actually looks very interesting (growing revenue, positive cashflow/balance sheet, reasonable valuation), any views on the company from your past work? Main risk seems to be regulatory. Nice write-up on its long term prospects:

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4350724-virtu-much-just-play-on-volatility
     
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  9. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    I thought I saw that 97 or 98% were not direct-routed. Maybe I mis-read it. Yeah, most companies that cater to daytraders will allow the direct routing, I believe.

    I never dealt with the business side of it, and back then (it's been years), I never dealt with Virtu. I remember working with Citadel, but I don't remember much of it. I did deal a lot with Knight Capital and dealt with them during their complete screw up of software upgrades that led to that massive market disruption about 7-10 years ago. I also had to deal with a lot of the ECN's/Exchanges like BATS, EDGE, ICE, NASDAQ, etc. Knight, at the time, was the worst to deal with in terms of having a clue what was going on. Maybe it was just the people I dealt with, I don't know, but I wasn't surprised when they had their melt-down.

    It's amazing how much of a cluster some companies are behind-the-scenes, no matter their image outwardly. I've run into the same thing working in other fields, too, so it's not isolated. But like I said, I only dealt with the technical side of things - not necessarily the business side.

    I'll check the Virtu article out later -- thanks!
     
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  10. jsingles

    jsingles Member

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    Been meaning to post again in this thread but been real busy.

    MVIS - Big gap up on Friday, I think that continues. I'm in at $.98 average and will hold this for as long as possible to be bought out. They hired a firm to sell it, and the CEO has said that's the mission. This could possibly get to double digits, this year.

    XSPA - Should get PR this week on testing sites at airports. I bought in before the RS and have an average of $3.60. It's at $5 now, will think about selling when/if this gets to $7+

    SOLO - Long, long term play on this one. It's at under $2 right now, and at some point could be at 20+ (years later, likely). They're an electronic car making company that is securing production here in the States and Europe. If they can get to any kind of widespread manufacturing, they'll sky rocket.
     
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  11. adoo

    adoo Member

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    one good short candidate deserves another
    SE is severely overbought, w RSI above 80; been like that for ~ 1 mo. think that it'll cool down a bit, to catch its breath

    [​IMG]

    constructed this bearish CALL spread, w the thinking that SE will be below 105 by Jul 24

    BTO Jul 24 110 strike CALL
    STO Jul 24 105 strike CALL

    for a net credit of $2.30
    with this premium, the back leg of this Jan 2021 60 strike / Aug 2020 105 strike CALL vertical spread has, effectively, become a "no-cost" CALL option.

    should SE fall substantially below 105, i'd consider

    • buying back the current front leg, Aug 105 strike CALL, and
    • rolling forward another CALL, the strike price to be determined, just so that it'd result in a net credit
     
    #10511 adoo, Jun 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
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  12. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    @CCity Zero ALPN? market cap still 200+mil, their deal with ABBV alone is huge.

    SHLL another NKLA?
     
    #10512 saitou, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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  13. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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  14. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Good rebuttal to the self proclaimed leader in electric and hydrogen before shipping a single product.
     
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  15. adoo

    adoo Member

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    did this trade on 12 Jun
     
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  16. adoo

    adoo Member

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    btw,

    this is an eg of MACD cross under, where the fast line is about to go below the slow line.
    in my books, it is an effective momentum indicator​

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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  18. adoo

    adoo Member

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    it's deja vu all over again, remember Herbalife where Carl Ichan had (short) squeezed Ackman into submission
     
  19. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    Man! Nice catch, ALPN looked good in PM but SHLL did great. Unfortunately I missed these, are you in either?
     
  20. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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