[ESPN] MLB suspends spring training, delays Opening Day at least two weeks

Yup the mlb has a shitty commish. Now playing the “covid card”. just like RG all of a sudden supporting kap to get signed, gtfoh with the fake ish. Pure BS

 

And Selig was bad.....

 

So does manfred apparently.

 

Owners starting to show severe cracks in their stance.

the players union has always had the undivided unity... which is why it remains the strongest union in pro sports.

 

Manfred for whatever reason went “light” on us punishment wise and that’s nice, but what the hell? Baseball is rapidly losing fans, they don’t market their players anyway, but this could be the final nail in the coffin

 

Do players under contract get paid more if mlb revenue increases? No. So they shouldn’t get paid less in this case. A contract is a contract. Prorated makes sense.

 

True... but under paragraph 11 of player contracts they don't have to be paid during national emergencies if games aren't being played. I don't see this emergency disappearing anytime soon so the owners hold the cards as long as the emergency still exists and they can invoke paragraph 11. Plus, the players agreed in the earlier deal to a possible renegotiation if no fans would be present. That is really what messed them up. The pro-rated deal was already in their contracts through paragraph 11. They jumped at the deal in part because of getting full service time for a partial season.

Owners also have to worry about sponsorship deals falling apart under force majeure clauses. I think a big part of why ownership doesn't want to come off their numbers is what happens if no fans are allowed next year? Players still going to expect full salaries? That's not going to happen, and owners don't want to set that precedent now even on a pro-rated basis.

 

No, he didn't. And not only did he not "go light" by any stretch of any imagination, he purposefully threw the Astros under the bus knowing damn well at least a third of the league was doing the same damn thing, including the Yankees and Red Sox after the 2017 warning that came out due to the infractions of... the Yankees and Red Sox!

F Manfred. Fire his hypocritical ass, now.

 

B

ok, fine. The players basically have now said they’ll do whatever the owners want to do as far as a season is concerned.

the fact that the owners are still reluctant is a sign that some owners probably never wanted a season.

As shitty as it is for them, this is the risk of being a sports team owner... Just like being any sort of business owner in these times. If they don’t want to be in this business, they can sell. They will also have to retain their workers (the players) if they ever want to have a chance of their business thriving again... hence why they’re always going to be on the hook for “something” games or no games.

 

Spoiler

The owners threatened to implement a season. The players told them to go ahead, and effectively might have called the owners’ bluff.

The risk to the owners in determining the length of the season and inviting a potential billion-dollar grievance from the players appears too great for them to plow ahead without an actual agreement.

Sources told The Athletic that the commissioner’s office is loathe to impose a season on players against their will when the Players Association likely would counter such a move by filing a claim for financial damages. The league’s goal, according to one source, remains unchanged: To negotiate a resolution that is satisfactory to both parties.

That message, however, became muddied Monday when the game’s highest-ranking executive took a harsher stand.

Commissioner Rob Manfred made a sharp reversal on ESPN, retreating from a guarantee he made five days earlier that the 2020 season would take place and raising the possibility that the campaign would be canceled instead.

Just five days earlier, in a different interview with the same network, Manfred said, “I can tell you unequivocally we are going to play Major League Baseball this year.” He put the chances then at “100 percent.”

Tony Clark, executive director of the Players Association, responded with a statement sharply critical of Manfred and MLB.

“Players are disgusted that after Rob Manfred unequivocally told players and fans that there would 100 percent be a 2020 season, he has decided go to back on his word and is now threatening to cancel the entire season,” Clark said Monday. “This latest threat is just one more indication that Major League Baseball has been negotiating in bad faith since the beginning. This has always been about extracting additional pay cuts from players and this is just day and another bad-faith tactic in their ongoing campaign.”

In a seven-page letter to the union on Monday, MLB deputy commissioner Dan Halem listed a host of issues the league seeks the union’s approval on for a 2020 season, including on-field rules, scheduling details, start dates and the postseason player pool — issues laid out in the now-infamous March agreement between the parties. The letter noted that some unnamed 40-man roster players and staff have tested positive for COVID-19.

Much of the letter seemed designed to guard against a grievance, which if filed would be independently arbitrated.

“I assume from the Association’s demand that we ‘unilaterally impose a season’ that it is waiving any rights and claims that it has under that provision to provide ‘feedback’ in the construction of that schedule,” Halem wrote, “including feedback on the topic of how many games should be played.”

Still unclear, however, is the owners’ actual end game. Are they stalling before eventually implementing a short season that is their only option, perhaps giving them a better chance to win a grievance? Too much time might remain on the calendar for MLB to justify a season of 50-odd games that likely would begin in mid-July.

The players remain adamant they only will agree to a deal that does not require them to take a cut in their per-game pay. Whether MLB intends to approach that issue differently than it has thus far is not known. But in the midst of the most contentious labor environment the sport has seen in a quarter-century, the players’ resolve on that issue might be rattling the owners. The league made three straight offers that included pay cuts and all were rejected, prompting Clark to walk away from the table with a statement that “It’s time to get back to work. Tell us when and where.”

Now the league says it is trying to re-engage.

MLB’s letter to the union Monday did not threaten immediate cancellation of the season if players do not waive their right to a grievance over the terms of the March agreement, but Halem wrote that “it is clear to us that our dispute over the meaning of the March Agreement remains an impediment to resumption of play.”

Manfred told ESPN the threat of a grievance was the “sort bad-faith tactic that would make it extremely difficult to move forward in these circumstances.”

Halem ended the league’s letter by presenting three choices: The union can tell the league it will waive the right to a grievance over the terms of the March agreement; the two sides can head to an expedited arbitration hearing to sort out their positions; or they can keep talking through their issues.

A fast-moving arbitration case, however, might not be desirable to the union — or even possible, because of the amount of money at stake and the potential number of witnesses and experts involved.

And if arbitration is off the table, it would appear the players face an ultimatum: Agree to a new deal, or the league won’t start the season.

Under the March agreement, Manfred is empowered to determine the number of regular-season games as long as the league pays players their full prorated salaries and tries to play as many games as possible. But he is not required to start the season unless specific conditions are met, including the removal of restrictions on mass gatherings and travel throughout the United States and Canada. The parties also are required to engage in a good faith discussion about the economic feasibility of playing games in the absence of spectators or at neutral sites. The league, in its letter, says none of those conditions has been met.

“I had been hopeful that once we got to common ground on the idea that we were gonna pay the players’ full prorated salary, that we would get some cooperation in terms of proceeding under the agreement that we negotiated with the MLBPA on March 26,” Manfred told ESPN. “Unfortunately, over the weekend, while Tony Clark was declaring his desire to get back to work, the union’s top lawyer was out telling reporters, players and eventually getting back to owners that as soon as we issued a schedule — as they requested — they intended to file a grievance claiming they were entitled to an additional billion dollars.”

The union likely would file that grievance if Manfred set the schedule without a new agreement, and a negative result for MLB indeed might cost the league hundreds of millions of dollars in damages, if not more. Owners might feel: Why play at all if there is a massive grievance looming and we believe we will lose money every game that we pay players their full prorated salaries?

Some on the players’ side have long believed some owners might prefer to cancel the season for financial purposes, regardless of any potential grievance. Manfred said Monday, however, that “the owners are 100 percent committed to getting baseball back on the field.”

“Unfortunately, I can’t tell you that I’m 100 percent certain that’s gonna happen,” he added.

Manfred needs 75 percent of the owners, or 23, to move forward with a schedule of his choosing. Whether he has that support at present is unclear.

“There are definitely more than eight owners who don’t want to play,” one player agent said.

Baseball hasn’t had an official work stoppage since 1994, but it is effectively going through one now, at a particularly trying time for the country and the game’s fans.

“It’s just a disaster for our game, absolutely no question about it,” Manfred told ESPN. “It shouldn’t be happening, and it’s important that we find a way to get past it and get the game back on the field for the benefit of our fans.”

 

This is a lie. Players called owners bluff about starting a season without their approval while three conditions aren't met. Players have not agreed to any proposal.

Owners wanted a season in which they made money and don't get sued.

Ownership fairies don't exist no matter how many times you say they should sell.

 

In a letter to the union Monday, deputy commissioner Dan Halem left the players with three choices: 1. Waive your right to file a grievance in regards to the March agreement; 2. Go to arbitration; 3. Keep negotiating.

Option 1: Owners realized they can't start a season willly nilly without player buy in. As such, they need players to allow them to start the season or they will be open to a lawsuit.
Option 2: If players believe they are being wronged by the owners in current status, they can seek arbitration per March Agreement. Though arbitration is decided on logic not feelings. Players have chosen not to pursue this route. If players are being wronged by the owners (i.e., the owners are not operating in accordance with CBA and March Agreement), this should be an easy choice.
Option 3: Players can actually negotiate. If players wanted to play, there are plenty of offers for them to accept. It is not about playing for players as much as they say that is all they want to do....the players agreed to the March Agreement which requires owner and player buy-in to play the season.

I expect players will continue to choose Option 4 and try to win feelings.

 

...to the detriment of baseball

If you used WOPR to create 2 opposing groups with the goal of totally ****ing up a multi-billion-dollar industry the AI would create the owners and the union.

 

Why do people keep saying MLB hasn't negotiated? From ESPN, here are the offers:

MLB Offer 1: 82 games, $1.03 billion guaranteed, $1.23 billion max
MLBPA Offer 1: 114 games, $2.86 billion guaranteed
MLB Offer 2: 76 games, $989 million guaranteed, $1.432 billion max
MLBPA Offer 2: 89 games, $2.24 billion guaranteed
MLB Offer 3: 72 games, $1.27 billion guaranteed, $1.5 billion max
MLBPA: We're not getting anywhere. Set the schedule.

MLBPA in each of their proposals has offered to get paid less to do less work.

MLB in each of their proposals has offered to pay more while players do less work. From the 1st to 3rd offer, players would get 22% more money for 13% less work.

 

Do you think all owners want a season?

 

One could also ask if all players want to reject the owners' offers

 

I know most people tend to side with the players in situations like this, but I just cant. MLB players have been so ridiculously petty. MLB has sent several reasonable offers, and while I agree they should be paid 100% of their pro-rated salaries at some point they need to understand they are (possibly permanently) damaging the game. A completely lost season would be a nightmare for the sport. I will always love baseball, and no matter what I will continue to watch, but a lot of people do not feel the same way. Not to mention a lot of the fans of the sports are growing older in age, and I'm worried there is a chance it becomes a completely niche sport like the MLS in the not-so-distant future. Millennials (I guess technically based on the Google definition I am one) and Gen Z don't really care about the sport for the most part. I'm hoping those of us with young children help fix this issue with Generation Alpha, but considering a lot of people that have kids this age are Millennials I am pessimistic. In 15-20 years we could be looking at an entirely different landscape. I hope I am overreacting, but things can change so quickly nowadays....

You have tone deaf players like Blake Snell talking about risking his life to make millions of dollars playing a sport that so many people would play for a fraction of that price...Not realizing there are people out there actually risking their life to bring home $50000 a year. Yes the owners are at fault too, and they apparently forgot that owning a business comes with risk, but I can't blame them for not bending over and taking every demand from these petulant children. I just don't understand what the PR employees from baseball are doing... How is all of this becoming so public. It's almost as bad as politics at this point.

Here is my hope: The grandstanding ends soon, and we have a start to "Spring Training" in about a month. Season starts by the end of July, and they play 65 games. Players get 90-95% of prorated salary and an expanded postseason of 16 total teams. A highly intriguing tournament style early portion of the postseason. Rob Manfred loses confidence in the owners with the way he handled the cheating scandals and covered up for the Yankees and Red Sox, and he is canned by the end of 2020.

Pessimistic View: The nuclear option is launched, 48 games, lots of marquee players refuse to play, and it's a mix of big leaguers and minor leaguers competing in a stupid, makeshift season. The game is changed forever and never fully recovers.

 

Don't forget that the players wanted an opt-out clause in which if any player feels unsafe due to health concerns they would get their full salary paid without having to play lol. They've gone off the deep end. As a younger male as well (32) I don't think baseball will die anytime soon. Baseball is still very close-knitted in cities like St Louis, NYC, Boston, LA, and Chicago. They had sell outs even when their teams were awful. I think what will happen is that baseball will become more top-heavy and some lower end teams go broke.

 

Wouldn't that in essence change baseball forever?