I'm thinking that the most important reform is removing things like qualified immunity and the the advantages that LE get in the judicial system. Even with a reduced and well trained PD there will likely be civilians killed by LE. LE will remain human and still have to deal with often confusing situations. Even with the best intentions mistakes can still be made while it will be impossible to weed out all bias or instill perfect emotional control. What we need is to know that people like George Floyd will get the same justice that Justine Ruscyck got. That an LEO that kills a black man is just as likely to get convicted as one that kills a white woman.
What's misleading about it? One of the council woman, when asked who would then respond to 911 calls, said "911 calls stem from privelege". Not, she did NOT say 'that would be another type unit that would respond". She clearly believes that there wouldn't be anyone to respond. So, your failure to articulate how this would be a good thing is duly noted, and red herring rejected. If anything, the reply is a red herring.
Ahh, so that's why actual plans to do this are being put forward, in a 'veto proof manner'? That's why the Minneaopolis mayor (not exactly a Trumper) was booed off the stage when he said he wasn't going to disband the police? See above, they're working on actually doing it...and giving example of where they're already done it. Multiple cities are putting forward plans for defunding. Not lip service, actual proposals. NYC is on the path, like Minneapolis, of 'disbanding'. Nine out of 13 Minneapolis City Council members stood up on the stage to announce their intent to disband the city's police department, CBS Minnesota reports. That's not rhetoric, that's actual voting. Several members of the Minneapolis City Council are exploring ways to permanently disband the Minneapolis Police Department. Over the past week, several other city agencies have severed their ties to the department. “This is a moment that’s going to go down in history as a landmark in the police and prison abolition movement,” said Tony Williams, a member of MPD150, a Minneapolis group whose literature on building a “police-free future” has been widely shared during the protests. “There’s a groundswell of support for this. People are grounded in the history of policing in a way that has never happened before. It’s visible that police are not able to create safety for communities.” {Yahoo news} He clearly thinks this is real, as do almost all the other people reporting on it. What have you got to offer to refute that? I find your take plausible...but I think you're misunderstanding how off the deep end the far left is, in that you seem to think 'come on, they wouldn't actually think that, right?' One of the Minneapolic councilwomen certainly thinks its real. When asked who, under their plan, would answer if someone called 911 replied, "that comes from a place of privelege". Not 'oh, we'd have other units to address that', or even 'we haven't figured that out yet, but we will.' Quite the contrary...she made the argument that not having someone respond would be a good thing. How does that jibe with your stance? Has it? Is there more or less support now for actual change? Seems like lots of people who would supported change are now against it, and lots of people in Minneapolis are now EXPECTING the police to be disbanded. This certainly seems like a LOT more than just rhetoric. But, let's say you're right. Are you so quick to dismiss various things Trump says in order to generate impetus for change? Or only when it comes from the left? [
Yes, I did. Ok so far. I hear what he's saying...but the two statements there are in direct conflict. There will be NO new form of public safety reading in the next weeks, or even months. So, when he says they wouldn't do any defunding until the new form was there, either he's lying, or those saying they'll do it within weeks or months are. See above 'by the time we're ready to do that'...well...you were going to do it in weeks, right? There is already a huge budget shortfall...where is all the money for creating this new public safety strategy and departments going to come from. There certainly isn't going to be any massive budget windfall in weeks or months, when the defunding was going to start. Also...are they defunding or disbanding? Their stance is disband, which is markedly different than defund. What he's talking about is disbanding...which is then also by far the most costly to replace. Look at all the money we've thrown into the Middle East trying to get new police set up....Billions and years later, very limited success. Extreme example...but these things take time, and money, and a lot of both. So, should probably stop saying we're doing to start defunding right away...wouldn't you agree? Then, there is the councilwoman who, when asked about who would then respond to 911 calls, clearly seemed to think it wasn't even necessary to do so. At best, that's stupid and not helpful...would you agree? At worst, its a sign of just how far out some of the council members are...to the point of thinking 911 isn't necessary. Further, while replacing *some* of the tasks the police do now with other mechanisms seems feasible, would you agree that replacing it's core function is probably not? ie, police are there to arrest criminals. If you're disbanding (not defunding, but disbanding)...who is going to do that? There was some good additional commentary around this in other places: That first part seems fine. I think most would agree on sending mental health professionals to mental health calls (although that assumes there are those people available, which gets back to increased funding), and EMT's to overdose calls. Be interesting to see how the unarmed street teams work...that could be viable, but it could also lead to some of them getting killed. Camera traffic enforcement ok (but need the $$$ to get that set up). Community outreach is something they do actively here in Dallas, and it has been effective. But that's from the police...not from some nameless body. Pepper spray would certainly be preferred to shooting, wouldn't you agree? So, not sure what other alternative they have in mind. The police (or other alternative group) simply don't have the time and manpower to wait patiently while people calm down, particularly if they potentially endanger public safety while they are all riled up. Saying 'that doesn't murder black people' strikes me as a reach, although there was the incident of the man in his car, with his wife/girlfriend there filming it, that seemed frankly worse than the Floyd incident a few years ago. But that's 2 incidents in several years. Out of how many tens of thousands of incidents involving police, in Minneapolis? That strikes me as something requiring reform, not dismantling, but maybe it is time. How to actually do it, though? That is the real question. And I don't see any answer out there that doesn't still involve having 'the police'. So, is disbanding the right way to get there? Can Minneapolis actually afford creating something new? What will happen in the interim, with defunding occurring almost immediately?
You can ask the family of Philando Castile whether they felt justice was done. This is why so many people are angry. They’ve seen this story before. We hope that it doesn’t end the same way this time
No kidding. This goes way back also, literally the history of the US. Does anyone know the history of Scottsboro Boys in the 1930s? Read it up. Many probably do know of the story of Emmett Till. Till, a young black boy went to a grocery store and later a young white lady accused he sexually grabbed her. Her husband and a relative kidnap the boy, lynched him, and murdered him. The men that killed the boy were charged, trialed, and acquitted. A year later, the two men admitted they killed the boy (double jeopardy and the racist culture protected them). Decades later, the lady recanted her story and said the boy did not touch her. If not for phone video, who do you think the public would likely believe in all these encounters with the police, with individuals making up stories and within the justice system? Wait, we do have video evidences and it still wasn't good enough.... until maybe now. Perhaps. But of course, now we are seeing people doing the same thing - it's all fine. Blind as fools.
We are an over policed nation. Everything is damn near illegal Cops do too much - their responsibilities need to be severely scaled back and no more military equipment. Rocket River
And yet you can't point to one single piece of evidence, out of all that entire history? Interesting.
It's not just the right who does not like the slogan a lot of left leaning people also do not like it. I really don't like every issue coming down to right and left, when does it end, when one side converts all the others? So never?
Face Face masks during a pandemic where 100k people have died in 3 months has been made into a “right - left” issue... So yeah... never.
