How good would would Harden and Rockets be if he had the mentality and leadership of MJ?

Or better yet, if Harden had Olajuwon's warrior mentality and leadership.

Hakeem was able to win a ring without any allstar, never mind superstars, by his side.

Because unlike MJ, Harden has not had a top 50 all time player in his prime playing alongside him.

Pippen, Horace Grant, Rodman.

 

lol. 50% of ppl here call Lin, Yao and Terrence Williams legends.

 

Yao is. Very short prime but there has never been a dude that tall that moved as well as him.

 

Always talking out of both sides of your ass.

 

Maybe Lebron or MJ would’ve won game 7 against GS without CP3, but 1 is the GOAT, and the other is seen by many as the greatest competition to the GOAT title. Harden is not that. He never was, and never will be.

Chris Paul scored 2 points in the 1st half of game 5. Harden helped keep us within striking distance in the 1st half in game 4 when we started down 0-12, and in game 5 as well. CP3 was able to come up big in the 2nd half. He was brought here to prevent Harden from having to do everything, and he was fulfilling his role very well. It is with Harden that CP3 made it further than he ever had in his career.

if Harden had been given Big 3’s and all these amazing rosters year in and year out, but still couldn’t deliver a title as the man, that would be 1 thing, but that’s not the case

Steph, KD, Klay, and Draymond were about to lose to Harden and 33 yo CP3...Harden is not MJ or Bron, but we need to stop undermining his greatness...if u give him championship caliber teams, he can definitely win a title, and he doesn’t need to have “mamba mentality” or be an ******* like MJ to do it

 

It's just something about Harden where he just seems like he struggles closing series. The Spurs one is the most obvious example. He gets really sluggish and tired during late game situations in the playoffs. He tends to start walking around. Like you aren't going to see him do a chase down block and then sprint the other way for a dunk like you would sometimes see with Jordan, Kobe and LeBron. He doesn't have that last burst of conditioning in late game situations that those guys have that made them beat their opponents. Hakeem had it too. He could out condition any big man in existence. I think it's purely based on cardio conditioning.

 

Ralph Sampson ring any bells.

 

people need to stop rewriting history

Harden was more efficient in the 2018 WCF than CP3 was...54% TS vs 52%

CP3 was nice in game 2, and great in the 2nd half of games 4 and 5...aside from that, he was meh or invisible the rest of the series

“Harden led teams when they are getting tired tend to just jack up threes. CP,3 would have controlled that bad habit in games 6 and 7 if he played.“

yes, if CP3 was there, he would’ve helped tremendously and we likely win...u can not expect Harden to beat GS by himself

if Harden had gotten injured, and it was just CP3, the outcome would’ve been the same...a series L

it was Harden that had 22 1st half points in game 4 to save us after being down 0-12 to start the game

it was Harden who was generating offense to keep us afloat in the 2nd half of game 5 while CP3 was scoring 2 points

CP3 needed Harden like Harden needed CP3

bringing up the 2016 1st round series is so disingenuous and u know it, stop it...

Rockets were a dysfunction 41 win 8th seed...the 2016 Warriors without Curry are still much better than some 41 win squad that made the playoffs on the last day of the regular season

Lol, did u expect him to win that 2015 WCF series? Game 5 was terrible, but let’s not act like games 1, 2, and 4 didn’t happen.

Rockets heavily overachieved in 16-17 thanks to Harden’s play and leadership. Most had them as a low seed, 1st round exit heading into the season. They shouldn’t have been an OT away from being up 3-2 against a 61 win Spurs team in the 1st place, but yes, game 6 was very bad.

 

Absolutely. They’d have been the 1st seed in the West and won the title for sure.

maybe not current ISO heavy Harden, but Harden back then is not the same as he is now, and it doesn’t matter, because Kerr could run a different system, and it would still result in a chip if Harden is surrounded by that level of talent...especially if he’s facing Bron and bums in the finals after injury to Kyrie and Love

We’re gonna act like Harden would’ve lost to any WC team back then if he had GS’s roster?

 

If he had a co-star against the Spurs, maybe he’d have more energy, or they could carry the team while he’s struggling, but he didn’t

look at how absolutely trash Curry was against us all the way up until the 4th quarter of game 5 in that series last year...he had KD to carry him tho so we all act like his trash play didn’t happen

Kobe and all his conditioning was a 1st round exit without having major talent...talent trumps all...Harden rarely has it

Lebron without a star was making finals, but in the East...Harden could’ve done the same thing

Lebron by himself and mediocre rosters would’ve been getting b*tch slapped in the West, and he is 1 of the best conditoned athletes ever and in the convo for GOAT

give Harden multiple championship rosters, and then we can judge whether or not he’s capable

Bron, MJ, Kobe, Kawhi, Steph, etc have motor bikes while Harden has beatdown bicycles, so it’s no surprise he hasn’t been able to win a race. He had a motor bike in 2018, but the wheels fell off at the last second.

 

Casual...

 

Probably have a ring by now.

Doesn't have that Jordan/Mamba mentality. (Not in the postseason anyways...)
Blame his teammates/coaches all you want...

Getting punk'd by the Spurs without Kawhi & Tony?
Taking one shot in the final 7 minutes vs the Warriors?

Matt Barnes trash talks to your mother and NOTHING?!
Jordan would never...
Jordan had slights - real or fake/imagined - to motivate and go kick ass.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/five-slights-michael-jordan-turned-into-fuel-include-labradford-smith-fiction-george-karls-dinner-diss/

Losing by 39 to the Spurs WITHOUT Kawhi and Tony?
Damian Lillard .9?
Getting benched & watching Josh Smith/Corey Brewer bring the team back?
Setting a playoff record for most turnovers in a game?
Lost to Durant/Cousin-less Warriors team in G5(Durant exits with 2 minutes left in the 3rd; Harden takes one shot in the final 7 minutes)
G6 no Durant, no Cousins, Curry/Green in foul trouble, Curry scoreless at half; up 89-82 before Steph goes nuclear & wins the game

Where/what's his playoff moment(s)?

 

bro. Both Pippen and Phil were nonames before meeting Jordan

 

bro...Jordan did not win sh*t until Pippen became a household name, and Phil is the GOAT coach unless u like Pop more, so your point means nothing

 

From everything I've seen, Jordan was good because of his talent and his work ethic. Not because of his leadership skills. He was successful in spite of his [piss poor] leadership skills. Jordan is one of the greatest examples of the halo effect I've ever seen... Because he was arguably the best there ever was, people act like everything he ever did was the right way to do it. Jordan was not perfect. Him being an @sshole was one of the greatest examples of that. If he had the same level of passion, but could lead in a more amiable way, I think he could have been a way better teammate, and seen more success later in his career. I think Harden may actually be a better teammate, even if he's not always the best lead-by-example kind of player.

As for having Jordan's mentality... One does have to wonder how much better Harden could be with the Kobe or Jordan work ethic. We can only go by what minimal information we get through the media and whatnot, but it seems hard to deny that Harden has some questionable motivation at times while Jordan and Kobe busted their asses like no one in history, arguably with less base talent than someone like Harden.

... All that said, James Harden is really, really, REALLY ****ing good, guys. And he clearly is busting his ass every summer, getting better and better lately. I don't know how people keep losing sight of that. He may not be Jordan, but he is NOT the reason the Rockets don't have a championship over the last several years. It is EXTREMELY rare for a team to have a player as good as Harden. The only other player in Rockets history on Harden's level is Hakeem, and he was 32 before he won a title for us. At the moment, Harden is the single best player of all time without a title.

 

Ill take that. ONLY Jordan can replace harden and have a better chance to lead the rockets to a championship. That just shows how heavy the burden harden carries.

That makes harden runner up GOAT then

Right @hikanoo49 @fchowd0311

 

Would they become so good if it wasnt for his demanding nature?

 

I don't know what you mean by "unless you like Pop more". Pop is just a better coach. The fact that Pop also seems to be a way a better person with a far more interesting personality is a separate discussion. Aside from that, I agree that MJ's supporting cast is VASTLY underrated by his fanboys.

 

whether Pop is better or not doesn’t really matter much to me...Phil is 1 of the greatest

when talking about GOAT coaches, his name will be brought up whether u agree or not

McHale, JBB, and MDA do not compare...1st 2 are trash

the MJ slurping after his little documentary is starting to get annoying

 

How many coaches and players didn’t have “MJ’s demanding nature” in their life and were still great? Too many to count.

now we’re gonna act like MJ didn’t have 1 of the best rosters in the league year in and year out when he was winning titles and didn’t need a lot of help to win even tho he’s the GOAT...

The Bulls won 55 games and lost a game 7 to the Knicks in the 2nd round the year he retired. The Bulls were stacked.

this MJ nut riding is outta hand