1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Trump's War Record

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Apr 22, 2020.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    The same as Trump's NK policy except without the photo op element and the gushing praise of the regime's dictator even before any agreement was made that rewards the dictator positive press that eventually failed in any worthwhile agreement:

    Convince them to agree to IAEA snap inspections of nuclear facilities and assets that have been frozen from the sanctions would be unfrozen.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    Let's see - first President to ever get a country to dismantle its nuclear program. I'd say a smashing success.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    You dismiss an uptick in civilian casualties under the current administration with pure narrative fitting conjecture that Obama 'made up numbers' without a single shred of evidence besides comforting your pre existing biases.
     
  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    3,755
    photo op with soon to be dead guy vs billions of dollars to large state sponsor of terror. Obama started a complete shitshow in Syria and busted up Europe but then massive appeasement in Iran.

    As a person against all war, it troubles me to see the neocons headed back to the Dem side from where they came and have people attack trump as an appeaser.
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    You seem to just gloss over the relevant parts to conform to your preconceived narrative that comforts you.

    Again, if NK agreed to snap IAEA inspections, the current administration would unfreeze assets from lifting sanctions which would be what the Obama administration did.

    And please, Iran commits the same proxy funding of regional assets to protect their regional interests like any regional military power does on this god damn planet including the United States from South America to the Middle East. The United States doesn't chose whom to designate as "terrorists" based on moral principles but rather who doesn't want to play ball with us in terms of economic trade on our terms. Tell me how in all practical terms the human toll that Saudi has placed upon Yemen any different than what Hezbollah has done? Show me all the Iranian Shia extremists blowing up public areas in Western nations like Saudi Wahhabist backed Sunni terrorists.

    So Obama installed Assad as dictator of Syria? Because rest assured regardless of what United States regime was in place, Syria was going to civil war regardless of US involvement. The previous administration placed the Obama administration in a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenerio where invasion and overthrowing of Saddam and the Baath party in Iraq destabilized the region, creating civil war and the conditions for ISIS to form and reach Syria. If Obama did nothing about ISIS, he would be damned for that also. It was a no win situation.
     
    #25 fchowd0311, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  6. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    98,937
    Likes Received:
    48,830
    Or Kriegtreibers.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,052
    Likes Received:
    15,227
    Surrendering in Syria, Afghanistan, and North Korea was a necessary evil. I'm glad we're out even though friends are now dead because of it, and those countries face a grim future. Let us please not repeat the mistake of half-assed interventions in the future. But it's not like Trump has really learned a lesson or anything about proxy wars or interference. He's still friendly with terrible people, he's still fighting proxy wars, he's still trying to undermine the self-determination of sovereign nations. At the same time, for all his bluster I doubt his resolve to actually use his military strength if a direct confrontation is necessary and I suspect Russia and China doubt him as well; meanwhile, he's alienated many actual friends. So I don't consider his foreign policy much of a credit to him.
     
    jo mama, mikol13 and RayRay10 like this.
  8. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,325
    Likes Received:
    3,586
    Yeah I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your ass. Those numbers are the result of Obama policy and Bush to a large extent. It's really ignorant to put everything on Trump when he's inherited the proxy war your savior and saint started. Plus you need to give some sources with your numbers. I find you hard to believe because you're so far gone down the leftist rabbit hole. Anyway I find it pathetic that you need to dog Trump on everything. I really can't take you seriously because you just can't get off your schtick. I swear you are paid by the DNC. If you aren't they need to pay you.
     
  9. WNBA

    WNBA Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    5,365
    Likes Received:
    404
    Isn't Covid19 a war declared by Trump? The death toll is now at 48000, if American lives matter.

    It is excellent that he did not slaughter more foreign people...........was it because he is busy doing his civil war here?
     
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

    "Human-rights activists complained about the drone programme under the Obama administration, saying the operations were overly secretive and hid the fact that civilians were sometimes killed in the strikes.

    President Obama responded by saying that strikes were carried out in a precise manner - and that intelligence officials would release data on civilians who were accidentally killed in the strikes that occurred outside of war zones. President Trump has built on the existing programme and made it even more ambitious.

    During Mr Obama's eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency."

    So this is fake news I assume for your standards. I don't worship politicans like you do in regards to Trump. I haven't seen anywhere near the scrutiny of Trump from you relative to my criticisms of Obama especially when it comes to Wall Street and his half assed healthcare plan that didn't nearly go far enough. The fact that half the message board thinks I'm too critical of the DNC and believe I subscribe to anti-DNC conspiracy theories while you think I'm a paid DNC shill shows how far out of touch you are if you are posting in good faith.

    We have data to show how right wing/conservative individuals fall in line while lacking principle.

    https://www.axios.com/republican-vo...526-8f963dfd-17f1-4ed6-804b-30a0748a0a75.html

    Polls are pretty clear. When Obama was president, drone strikes and strikes on Syria were very unpopular by Republicans AND Democrats. When Trump does drone strikes and air strikes on Syria, there is a massive uptick in Republican support in polling while the Democrat polling remains consistent in their disapproval.


    Use Occam's Razor. Who is more likely to abuse their military authority? A liberal Chicago community organizer or a man who bragged about wanting to kill families of terrorists and reinstitute torture policies during a presidential campaign?
     
    #30 fchowd0311, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,333
    I don't believe Trump is a warmonger and I think to his credit he hasn't started any new conflicts. His war / peace record is like the rest of his Presidency. Inconsistent, haphazard and ineffective, if anything it might've made the us less safe.

    Regarding the most featured part of his record is his overture to NK. I don't fault him for meeting with Kim Jong Un and I've given him credit for doing so. I don't think giving Kim some more prestige is much of a big deal and if it produced real results would be well worth it. It hasn't produced real results as NK is still holding on to nukes, launching missiles and making threats to the US and other countries in the region. At the same time though we've cancelled important military exercises with SK and strained relations with SK and Japan to appease NK and also because of Trump's threats to extort more money from those countries regarding the US military presence. A presence that we put in there to address the Cold War threat of containing the USSR and now containing the PRC. While promising start this has not made us safer.

    Regarding Iran this is definitely a failure. Trump's own intel services, ranking officers, and allies told him the deal working with Iran was working but Trump and GOP hardliners couldn't stand all things Obama so tore it up with nothing to replace it. The result is that Iran has resumed it's nuclear program and is more confrontational regionally. We assassinated their head general and they dropped some missiles on our air base. Frankly we're lucky that they were so ham handed in their response to shoot down a Ukrainian airliner and now the whole world is dealing with COVID or else we might be dealing with a lot of activity both in the region and beyond from Iranian backed actors.

    On Syria I certainly don't blame Trump for the mess that it is and one of the biggest failures of Obama was his fecklessness regarding the Syrian redline. I also think it was a mistake to absolutely rule out dealing with Assad. We might've been able to influenced him in the early days of the conflict but it's too late for that. The sad truth is no one has done a good job on Syrian. The West has been feckless while Russia and Iran have capitalized with no concern for the tens of thousands of Syrians dying. Regional players like Turkey and Saudi Arabia have used it for score settling. For Trump particularly though he did a good job initially with the fight against DAESH and even improved on the Obama strategy but he made things much worse. While ceding Syria to the Russians might've kept US forces from playing a larger role it has given the Russians and also the Iranians more power and influence. The most unforgivable thing Trump has done is abandoning the Kurds and claiming he was doing so to bring US troops home only to redeploy them to defend oil wells in Syria and Saudi Arabia. He turned his back on one of our most loyal allies and shown that the word of the US can't be trusted. We could be paying for this long after Trump has left.

    Those are the three biggest issues but Trump's record regarding other hot spots is a dismal failure. On Yemen he's sold US policy and literally US military equipment and support to the Saudis. On Ukraine I don't think I need to go into detail on that but we all know how that Russia is the big winner.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    I don't really see how Trump improved on the fight against ISIS?

    ISIS main stronghold in Mosul was surrounded by Iraqi forces months before the 2016 election. ISIS was already on their last legs in terms of being a genuine effect occupation force.

    Trump merely carried out the same tactic to defeat ISIS: Let the locals deal with it as we supply and train them. The vast majority of the downfall of ISIS came from non US and NATO troops fighting. We just trained and supplied many of these fighting groups.

    If anything, Trump helped ISIS by abandoning the Kurds while they held thousands of ISIS members in detention and relying on Erdogan to sort out the ISIS prisoners issue.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,333
    He followed the pretty much the same strategy but he didn't micromanage it as much the previous administration. Many frontline commanders have given the Trump presidency credit for allowing them to operate easier and thus defeat DAESH faster than under Obama. I'm not giving Trump credit for making a big difference in defeating DAESH but it sounds like he did do things a little different that sped things up.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    That just doesn't make sense. US troops had little to do with direct combat operations against ISIS. So rules of engagement changes would have little to no effect. The local fighters play by their own rules of engagement. We just train and supply them while providing air support. This was just Trump making up **** out of thin air. If there was any high ranking military officer who claimed this, I'm assuming they said it out of political motivation by agreeing with the POTUS and being in his good graces. I just don't see how changing rules of engagement would have any effect on fighting ISIS when we did hardly any of the fighting.

    Like I said before. This was Trump merely riding the 'success' of the previous administration as Mosul, ISIS' "capital", was surrounded by Iraqi forces literally months before Trump was elected. They were already on the downturn of their reach and ability.

    Ill give Trump credit for not bungling it up and maintaining the push against ISIS but not changing up strategy.
     
    #34 fchowd0311, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  15. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    21,159
    Likes Received:
    18,147
    I would put his number at around 47,000 as of today.
     
    edwardc likes this.
  16. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    13,046
    Likes Received:
    8,347
    Containment and engage. Do a nuclear deal that allows them to comeback to the world community. Let the young get taste of prosperity and sow change from within.
     
  17. edwardc

    edwardc Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    10,508
    Likes Received:
    9,692
    There is no good reason to vote for 45.WPE
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  18. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    21,159
    Likes Received:
    18,147
    It is likely that our mistake-in-chief's death toll will surpass the number of US soldiers in Vietnam today...
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  19. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,759
    Likes Received:
    20,514
    CV death toll is pushing 50k.

    US military lost 58k servicemen in the Vietnam War.

    We will see that surpassed next week. That is some ****ed up ****.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    You seem to have your facts very wrong
     

Share This Page