UBI will have to be instituted to save the economy

You speak like it's already been implemented.

 

Maybe the only I agree with senator in this forum. Now talk to Ted Cruz about us. We'll give you a hug when he calls you an elite socialist for even thinking that.

 

Probably, but it'll probably just be a series of stimulus bills. I doubt they'll institute an Andrew Yang type of evergreen bill. But yeah the government is just going to have to incur more and more debt to float the economy for months on end. It's either incur mass debt, or see almost half the country default on their mortgage, and stop paying bills. Most households need more like 2,500 a month for a median household to keep paying mortgage, bill, and groceries. Current debt is something like 23 Trillion. By 2022, I would assume we'll be more like 60 Trillion in debt, but the alternative is probably a worse problem to deal with.

For reference, Japan currently has twice the debt to their GDP. Our GDP is 20 trillion so in theory we should be fine with up to 40 trillion in debt, but we'll be pushing 50 to 60 trillion more than likely.

Republicans seem to prefer mass death to open the economy up, and just let the virus burn through the population so they can avoid .... well basically debt, but IMO it's unavoidable regardless so you are better off keeping a semi shut down economy with short term UBI bills passed for the next year until there is a vaccine.

The Republican plan to let the US population experience mass death is stupid. It will create more economic fear, and panic, and collapse the healthcare system.

 

I can easily say have up to 6 months of reserve cash otherwise there will not be a safety net to back you up.

Bail outs is the new norm. Irresponsibility will always be bailed out. The 'counting to 3' discipline method is ignorant, including with children.

That said, I am open to the idea of having a socialistic/capitalistic society in tandem. If people want to live life with no repercussions or responsibility, they can get government housing, government food, government healthcare. If they want sin tax items or luxury, they can get a side hustle going for a little extra cash to afford those luxuries. And those who want more out of life than just existing, they can join the rest of the adults in the real world.

 

That's iffy. I know he's an outlier, but the idiot who is governor of Georgia opening up gyms and salons first is the height of stupidity. Some Governors like the one in South Dakota didn't even have guidelines even though they were hot spots. However there are some that admittedly have been very responsible. I would say, even as much as I cannot stand Abbott, his "re-opening" guidelines are reasonable.

I'm alluding more to the Trump media infrastructure which is undercutting what most reasonable Republican governors are instituting. If the Republican media infrastructure is telling a different directive than the actual plan, that's a problem. Most Republican citizens hear more from the Trump media than they do from the actual executive orders of governors like Greg Abbott sadly enough.

Proposal to decrease debt.... I'm sure I'll get an eyeroll from Trumpers here on what I think but my opinion is that you don't necessarily have to repeat the past, but you can learn from it. Coming out of the Great Depression there was massive infrastructure spending. I think in this case, it does take government intervention to setup the parameters for infrastructure overhaul. I would like to see the US setup infrastructure spending in energy to really become the global leader in green energy. I don't believe China is truly sincere about having an energy infrastructure that can scale globally, but I think the US can be with proper buy in from ALL Americans & leaders. It's the biggest economic opportunity to massively grow our GDP, and start making something here with long term global demand.

So it's not about being a hippie libtard. It's about business to me. What is something with long term global demand???... definitely green energy infrastructure that can scale to every country in the world. Domestically, obviously we also need to invest further in healthcare and science as well. You don't just spend your way out of debt, but you do make investments that grow the GDP and pay back on your investment in large enough way to offset the debt. You don't just cut stuff like social security and food stamps thinking that solves any problems other than creating more 3rd world type of public health and safety issues.

 

Im not speaking as a Republican but as myself when I say this; I want accurate information on this virus. We are all tired of the contradicting information. We are now going on the 6th month and we are no better off understanding what works and what doesn't. Its a cluster**** to the highest degree. There are parts of the economy we can open if we simply start checking peoples temperature, force them to wear face masks and wash their hands and disinfect the bottom of their shoes.

 

Oddly enough we are in agreement here. I do think we can institute health standards that allow for retail and restaurants to have some guidelines to help them have soft re-openings. I think either way, mask requirements will be a thing for the foreseeable future. Crowd management at retail and restaurants will be important. Start with requiring a host at the entry who can help with crowd mgmt, etc. Stuff like that can be logical first steps back in.

The worst thing that has happened is that somehow this got politicized in the right wing media, and the President has inserted himself too much into the pandemic. Now everyone is just arguing with each other, and the disinformation campaigns are all over the place. The science has suffered too because of this. I think many in science and health are mum on the virus because of the politics.

 

in the real world, a loaf of Ms. Baird's bread has gone up to $2.90 in comparison from $1.70 just 4 years ago, all while low wages remain low wage ..that's the real world. In some" real worlds", supreme court judges, well educated men who have taken economy courses, still manage to find themselves in debt by the twenty of thousands. If you can define the real world in such a condescending fashion, then you're not living in the real world.

 

Boohoo. You're concerned about paying $2.90 for a baked carb loaf in a bag. In the real world, Im more concerned about teaching those in grade school the basic necessities of life to the ability where they do not need to rack up debt. Teach the difference between an investment and a toy. Teach the importance of maintaining a healthy life style. Allow kids to explore their usefulness.

Im less interested in bailing out people who have made poor life choices. Im not interested in teaching our kids their only use in society is if they become judges, lawyers, doctors or other 'well educated' jobs.

 

UBI as a baseline is the future but for now.. UBI as a sustain is more attractive to me than the 2.2T pkg and probably whatever else this gov will come up with...

 

Companies without a 6m reserve, full of debts? The people model what society does - we are a society of using credit for spending, over leverage without a reserve. The gov could requires more responsibility (and they do for bank), but we are also a society of individual freedom to be irresponsible. For that, I'm not going to be too hard on individuals who knows no better. I would be harder on larger companies and society as a whole. And of course, there are folks that are responsible but their own circumstances (health, poor paying jobs - yea there are plenty of them) doesn't allow them to have a rainy fund. All together, a crisis brought to light what we have known for a long time... it's not the time to let it fall off the cliff as we all will be pulled down.

On the idea of a baseline UBI, it doesn't make people any more irresponsible or more responsible. It just simply allow people more freedom to do what make them happy. A happy society is one that is more healthy and with many other benefits. And you are absolutely right, not everyone care to be a judge, lawyer, doctor or whatever society defined 'well educated' jobs.

 

The USA needs to do a lot of things.

For the time being they need to strongly consider opening up jobs in a staggered manner.

People can start going to work in many cases where they do not sit on subways or in cramped quarters.

Also large gatherings such as sporting events and concerts can remain cancelled or without crowds.

The overall leadership has been terrible.

We also need to do something about there being a safety net be it through medicine or otherwise. It was far easier for other similar nations to handle this than the USA for that very reason.

 

Im not getting into the discussion of businesses. Its way too complicated for this conversation. But much of the philosophy remains the same.

I have no problem with people leveraging debt. But there needs to be responsibility.

I do believe as a modern society, we need to identified basic human rights. But I have issues to arbitrarily state people being happy is more important than the over all health of the economy. Sure, I want that 4 bedroom house on a 1 acre lot with 2 60k cars and the ability to take a 2 week vacation abroad every year. But those dont buy me happiness. Knowing I can weather 6 months of calamity is much more peaceful. Responsible people do not enjoy burdening the messes irresponsible people make.

 

Annnnd hyper inflation will result... temporary ubi may be ok for month or quarter but businesses cant pay wages that beat that 1000. You will see more of our economy go under.

 

This has always been my biggest issue with education. We put a kid through school from K-12 and rarely, do we ever teach them life skills. Sadly, for a larger portion of the public, we missed our opportunity to teach these values. I don't think we can necessarily back track on bad habits. We may be able to reach a small percentage of the masses, but the majority will remain irresponsible.

I was thought by one of my uncles that it is okay to have debt, that in order to live a happy life, you have to go into debt. This was an educated person, with a decent wage and that was his philosophy. I saw the failure in his philosophy only because I saw him stressed all the time, he filed for bankruptcy at some point, he eventually got divorced, etc etc. I was still in the first couple of years in high school when I saw his whole financial philosophy blow up in his face and I learned I had to do the opposite of what the did.

I was slightly irresponsible in college, but thankfully I did not get myself in too much trouble. Overall, I am in early 30's, and I have a good amount of savings that my wife and I could live comfortably for the next year if either of us (or both) were to lose our jobs.

I am for fully funding classes in high school that teach life skills. Maybe two mandatory classes into the curriculum or something. Irresponsible behavior will continue to happen for every group (whether poor or rich) if we don't teach the value of not over extending yourself financially. It's how we've gotten into multiple messes over the years. It's the product of lack of education (even for those that are actually educated as well).

 

I keep seeing the word "hyperinflation" thrown around and I just don't understand why. Our economy is not fully leveraged one idea. We will definitely hurt for the next couple of years and we will definitely see an adjustment due to inflation, but to declare "hyperinflation", that just doesn't make sense. If that were the case the global economy would absolutely collapse.

 

convert your UBI check to Bitcoin, you'll thank me later