This is what people always say though. I feel like every year people complain about the canidates. In 2016 it was everyone complaining about how the GOP was a clown show. Bush was dynastic, Cruz was...well...Cruz...and Trump is Trump. Everyone just assumed that Clinton would wipe the floor with any of them...yeah, that didn't happen. I think everyone here has already chosen who they like so these debates are overkill at this point. I know all I need to know about these candidates. I honestly feel like Bernie is the only one that has a shot to wipe the floor with Trump. Bernie is the only one that has a rabid base and there is actually a lot of Trump voters that were once Bernie supporters and so I feel Bernie is the only guy that can get the base out to vote. I think he's the only guy that will get young people out to vote. I do agree that he's really a Democratic Socialist, technically, not Che Guevara or Stalin, and his policies are made after the Nordic model.
Good analysis, but I still think most if not all the major contenders would wipe the floor with trump. There’s never been a more polarizing figure in politics. I think the turnout against trump will make up for any lack of enthusiasm with the democratic candidate. It comes down to independents, like always. Trump did fine with them last time because his downside wasn’t well known. I think he’s too morally reprehensible for the majority of the country. If everyone is working, do they care? That remains to be seen. Based on all traditional metrics though, I tend to believe Trump is an easily beatable candidate
That was honestly the first time I've seen him flustered. The actual number of mar1juana arrests for people of color trended down every year of his mayorship except 2016, but there was a huge spike in 2016 due to the new police tactics he mentioned on stage. He didn't do a good job articulating that point, though. Not enough to derail a campaign, but he has some ground to make up in proving himself to black voters. Good on the moderators for asking pointed questions and demanding a straight answer (though I'm not a fan of throwing the alley oop to Warren to sh*t on him hah). Right after that moment with Pete, we had an exchange between Steyer and Biden (about Dick Harpootlian) that I thought was the moment of the debate. I don't think Biden did nearly enough to distance himself from his surrogate's comments. Came off as rambling vs substantively addressing the concerns that the Congressional Black Caucus brought up about Dick. Clear winner in the debate was Klobuchar imo. Got several good barbs in, and no one wants to punch down, so she was largely unchallenged. How the moderate vote splits between her, Biden, and Pete is up in the air. Pete had the momentum, which may have been blunted a bit today, but it's anyone's game
He wants the government to spend 100 trillion dollars to implement government programs over the next decade. Power and money would be moved from the public sector to the federal government. His plan would cost upwards of 70% of the GDP, well beyond the numbers in Europe.
It definitely seems that way. Usually Presidents that don't win the popular vote don't get a 2nd term either. It seems that way, I agree, I think enough people dislike Trump that they will either vote blue or not vote at all but we will see. I do think Bernie has the best shot because he has that rabid base like Trump. The best way to explain it is that a lot of Trump's base saw that he was their last shot at what they see as traditional America. He was the only one fighting for those people. I think Bernie's base thinks the same about him, that he's the only one truly and sincerely fighting for what they want. For the climate, for healthcare, and that the rest of the candidates talk the talk but won't walk the walk when it comes down to it. Like do I really believe Pete is going to go after money in politics? No, just like I didn't believe GOP candidates that adopted Trump's hard immigration stance. Like Trump, he's been shaping the entire debate on the left since he ran in 2016, he's dragged the field as left as he can now and they are either softly or hardly adopting his ideas. I will say if it's not Bernie, it'll be someone else. On policy issues, the oncoming elections get more and more...'socialist'. As millenials become basically near 40 years old we're probably going to see a more strongly left defined president. I also think that little bit about legalizing weed is bigger than people realize. When that is on a ballot it usually wins. That's something that affects a lot of people and usually just something that simple can drive out voters because they know and can see and feel the change. That's something that's easy to sell like the wall and he doesn't have to go out and shout it out or have people chant for it. Just let people know that he's willing to do it.
I definitely agree that Trump represents a swan song for men of a certain age. They know their world is changing and Trump is a familiar, albeit crude, champion for a less-PC culture. One of my co-workers, whom I respect deeply and isn’t a radical conservative, remembers when we were at war with “socialism/communism” in Vietnam (she’s 51). Bernie describing himself as democratic-socialist rings a warning bell with certain voters that can’t be unrung. Even if us more moderate or politically savvy voters realize that brand of socialism is nothing like communism, it still scares an older generation.
Lol I haven’t tried to persuade her. But I show her Trump’s tweets occasionally to show how unstable he is. My main approach if I’m a candidate is to emphasize that the US presidency demands respect, honor, and integrity. That’s first and foremost above policy positions. People of all ages across the political spectrum would be unlikely to disagree. Even rabid trump supporters, despite applauding his brashness, probably wish he was more professional at times
I think he's beatable .... but to do that you have to get the base out and I'm not so sure Bernie and his socialist ideas do that. Most of the country is close to the middle , not out on the fringes and Bernie's policies are on the fringes. The question becomes - is Trump being reprehensible a greater issue than the middle being against socialist policy. Honestly , I don't know the answer to that question. I think its fairly obvious that the DNC doesn't want Bernie .... and I fully believe businesses don't particularly care for him either , tax increases incoming for damn sure. Wallstreet probably doesn't want anything to do with him either - I could see the market making a substantial decline upon him winning the nomination just on the fear that he does win. Really , I think the best way to defeat Trump is with a moderate candidate who doesn't have a lot of baggage and why I support Klobuchar - moderate , no real baggage.
What ever you think of Bernie's economic proposals, understand this, the dude has been saying the same thing for decades and is principled as politicans can be. Even if you think majority of his policy proposals such as M4A are unattainable, the other half of his rhetoric regarding corporate campaign financing and lobbying especially after the Citizens United ruling creating a giant gapping hole of mistrust in the political system from all sides of the political spectrum rings true for a large swath of the electorate. White blue collared workers in Midwestern Ohio and black urban voters in Baltimore have similar levels of distrust in our political system because the outward appearances of the massive amounts of conflicts of interests that arise from our campaign financing, revolving door of lobbying situation. Both those entities I mentioned express their disdain with different diction but the venting is towards the same system. White blue collared voters call it "globalism" and poor urban minority voters call it "wall street" or the "top 1%". So even though you disagree with his economic solutions, Bernie's pointing out the systemic problem of underserved influence of corporations in our legislative process relative to the voter is a common held sentiment held by wide range of political leanings and if he exemplifies this issue in the general, he has a solid chance of convincing enough voters from all sides of the spectrum to win.
-Klobuchar completely owned the stage tonight, and finished with a strong and genuine appeal to NH voters. For someone in her position, a commanding debate performance followed by a passionate closing statement is about the best she could have hoped for. -It was an absolutely miserable night for Pete. Pretty much every candidate went after him at some point. And, yeah, things got [predictably] bad for him whenever the topic of race and his time as mayor were brought up. Like another poster mentioned, probably the first time he’s looked flustered. -Biden lowered expectations from the onset, which was odd, but turned in a somewhat feisty debate performance. A couple of compelling exchanges with Bernie. Typical Biden: some solid points, some rambling where-is-this-going moments. Like I said, typical Biden. -Bernie wasn’t particularly good or bad. Didn’t take any major punches. Combine that Pete’s poor performance and his virtual tie for the lead in NH, I’m guessing the Bernie camp likes their chances on Tuesday. -Warren vanished for the first half of the debate. She had a couple moments, but I don’t think tonight moved the needle for her. Same with Yang. -Steyer had his best, albeit most annoying, debate performance. Was very aggressive and spoke a great deal. He’s still a walking advertisement of why the rules need changed, but he had probably the biggest applause line of the night: his point about Trump’s re-election strategy being centered around the economy. Not that we didn’t already know that, but the point was well taken: this topic will be Trump’s bread-and-butter on the campaign trail, and his opponent needs to be able to respond to that accordingly. -Speaking of Steyer, I’m a little curious why when the opportunity to bash Bloomberg was brought up because of his money, why Steyer wasn’t included in that criticism. Warren, specifically, dragged Bloomberg but gave Steyer a pass and the moderators didn’t press the issue. Overall, I know nobody watched (the dreaded Friday night time slot + Trump/political fatigue), but it was actually a very substantive debate. Probably the best one yet. Also, interestingly, one if you were completely unaware of what’s going on and tuned in for the first time tonight, you probably would have assumed Klobuchar was the frontrunner and most presidential. I really hope she has a big night on Tuesday and is able to stay in the race.
This will be sort of a rant, not really directed at you but this post inspired mines... Bernie has the strongest base among all of these others, that's why he's so hard to get rid of. The base for the DNC isn't much different from the base of the GOP. Both see the coming elections as not only a culture war but a war for where america is headed. This is why the GOP pushed that whole SCOTUS judge so much, I don't think the young voters realized how important it was...although I do think the SCOTUS does a good job at reading the pulse of the nation, I doubt they will do what some of the GOP voters hope they will do (reverse Roe v Wade or Obergfell v Hodges.) I don't think Roberts wants that legacy. I think too people really really underestimate how progressive younger voters are...you just have to get them to vote, maybe the Millenials have taken enough losses to understand the battle they are in, I sure hope so. I do think each generation has to take their licks before they realize how important voting is, not just for the president, but the house and senate too. The GOP is giving them a good schooling on how important it is. So, I don't think Bernie loses because of the base, I think the base is riled up for Bernie. If you look on twitter, any slight against Bernie draws the ire of this base. #mayorcheat will trend in an instant and the Iowa thing made a lot of them think it was rigged against their guy. This sounds pretty familiar to what went on with Trump in 2016 vs the GOP...except the GOP was even MORE against Trump than the DNC, at least with statements. Almost all of these guys licking his balls now tried to stop him from winning the primary...to the GOPs credit, they didn't try to rig results or anything, not saying the DNC has done that though. I think if Bernie loses it'll be because the country just isn't ready for it yet, but they will be, 2024, 2028, 2032... just the polling on issues shows America is trending more left after being mostly moderately right leaning for the past what 20 years or so. I think the GOP has really just delayed the inevitable with Trump, time will tell, but I feel he was always this last hurrah of social conservatism. It's more about if the country is quite ready for this left leaning turn and if they are not...then Bernie will lose...but this is why the DNC HAS TO STAY OUT OF THIS PRIMARY. If the people vote Klobuchar or Biden or Pete, then fine, the country isn't ready for it...but if they vote Sanders, as it seems they are doing, then they have to roll with it. But as young people deal with healthcare issues, inability to own houses and start families, college debts, they get tired of being told to just wait a bit longer until they get theirs and they are going to turn more and more left until it actually happens. https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/201...llennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/ This has some good data on what I mean. Younger generations just align a lot more with what Bernie and AOC are selling than what Trump does. Also, before the usual "They get more conservative as they age" (I'm not saying you will say this, usually some conservative tells me this...) It's not true. Generations are pretty consistent in how they vote since people rarely change their politics, most people remain on the left or right once they make that decision, few people just up and change it. You can see from the link before that the Greatest generation was far more left leaning, which then produced FDR (who would be a radical socialist in today's climate...) and then the silents and boomers came and they have been consistently conservative. It may seem like people age and become conservative though because what I guess happens is the stances the baby boomers and silents took then (like say interracial marriage) no longer seem progressive when they are 80 years old. To people today that's a 'Well...duh...' and while things like gender pronouns seem TOO progressive for people here now, 50 years from now it might be a 'Well duh you have to respect their pronouns.' Zoomers (I think we are calling them? Apt for how fast things move nowadays...) may seem progressive now but 50 years from now we'll be wondering why people fought over some of these things Well, I guess my point is...Trump is the champion for those older generations that feel America is turning into something they don't recognize anymore. I know there are some young trumpers, but polls show they are more of a loud (4 channing...) minority of their generation than a majority. As crazy as it sounds, and it is kind of crazy since the guy is like 80 years old, Bernie is that champion for Millenials and the generations after them.
I did not watch the debate, but I did just scan through a number of the articles from the establishment Democrat left media about the debate. They are pushing hard for Amy and Pete, and appear to have completely given up on Joe, and to a lesser degree on Warren as well. They recognize Bernie as the animating force of this race and they appear to be trying to contain or subtly diminish his momentum as much as they can. In fact, after blowing away all the smoke in these collective articles, I came away with the impression that they did not believe that the race in New Hampshire will be altered by this debate and that to the extent that any of the candidates won, it was not the sort of win that actually gained anyone anything of substance. But they did think there was a clear loser, and that was Joe Biden, who they perceive as having basically conceded New Hampshire in large part because of his big surprise loss in Iowa. If this is the broader perception among Democrats and Joe keeps proceeding on this trajectory, then he could out of the race as soon as Super Tuesday (March 3).
NYT commenters describing Klobuchar as having had the best night: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage Amy Klobuchar8.2/10Average score Jamelle Bouie (7/10) — Klobuchar sounded confident and aggressive, willing and able to go after her competitors. Her defense of experience, in particular, was strong. More and more, she looks like a real alternative for moderate Democrats. Elizabeth Bruenig (7.5/10) — Klobuchar knows what she wants to be (a flinty, unflinching moderate) and she is good at performing it (presumably because she is a flinty, unflinching moderate). Jorge Castañeda (7.5/10) — Her closing statement was her best moment of the night: moving, ingenious, eloquent. She had strong stances on impeachment and Obama, but lacked them on other issues. Michelle Goldberg (9/10) — She managed to shred Buttigieg while coming off as funny and sensible. Her final riff on F.D.R. was masterful. Nicole Hemmer (9/10) — Klobuchar is the purest test of whether debates matter. If they do, she’ll surge in the polls — she nailed every single answer tonight. Liz Mair (9/10) — She delivered attention-grabbing knocks on opponents, looked and sounded presidential and full of heart. And kept bringing it back to Trump. She knocked him even more effectively than she knocked Buttigieg with the “cartoons” jab. Daniel McCarthy (4/10) — She injects legislative reality into the wishful policy thinking of the rest. But that doesn’t make a case for her as president. Bret Stephens (10/10) — Klobuchar had her best night of the campaign and should be recognized as the debate’s victor. Her closing lines, playing off of the memory of F.D.R., were as convincing as they were canny. Mimi Swartz (10/10) — Solid, knowledgeable; still a mystery why she isn’t gaining more ground. No snotty one-liners, no cheap shots. She radiated sincerity and commitment. Will Wilkinson (9/10) — She shook every nickel from grandpa’s coffee can and left it all onstage. She shivved Buttigieg for greenhorn temerity, lightly red-baited Sanders and finished big with a quavering paean to empathy. If New Hampshire’s not feeling it, she’s done.
Below is a quote from the DSA website: https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/ That quote says a lot about the DSA and their intentions. It basically implies the long term goal is to take government control of private corporations. They do realize they can't do that immediately so "Democratic Socialism" is just like regular socialism they just want to implement it slower.
The long term goal of private companies it to be as profitable as possible and if controlling the government does that, well look where we are now?
Bernie has nothing to do with the DSA. The DSA is an organization, just a name, it's not the technical definition of 'Democratic Socialist'. Sort of how the National Socialist party weren't Socialist.
Not sure why people think Pete had a poor debate. His answer on arrests was largely misunderstood, in my opinion. He was simply stating that even though arrests increased during his tenure, because of the new prosecution aim, they were still below national average. The moderator misunderstood him and her rebuttal made him look bad because it caught him off guard. I think his wanting to decriminalize spend drugs is evidence to him not needing to fear the answer he gave. I also think that he started saying his answer, realized that what he was saying sounded a bit like it was teetering on something he shouldn't say (he basically said that they started upping drug enforcement that was coupled with major crime and that's why mar1juana arrests with black people increased...insinuating that black people were committing a lot of the major drug related crimes), and tried to retreat but failed. Yes it looked bad. No, I'm not a Pete supporter, for the most part. I just don't think it ruined his debate. He's great on the debate stage. His substance is fine. In this instance, I think it was one time where he showed his inexperience, so those that don't like him will and should capitalize on it. Otherwise, he was good to great. Klobuchar is potentially poised for an interesting rise. If Pete weren't there, I think she'd take all his votes and be neck and neck with Bernie. My wife loves her as a moderate choice, and I think she's a very strong candidate. I honestly think she'd wipe the floor with Trump in a debate. For Pete to pull anything off, he's going to need more African American support. That's why I think a running mate like Corey Booker is perfect for him.
