[Official Thread] Media/Player Reaction to James Harden 2019-2020

He definitely doesn't do it as much and if you watched him as you say he's far more willing to play off ball and has much higher motor than Harden. That alone is going to make the media like him more along with the fact that he's 20 and hasn't had a hard failure yet because he hasn't had the opportunity yet.

Yes, Harden's stationaryness really rubs neutral fans the wrong way when they watch the Rockets. They are conditioned to believe that a motion offense is more aesthetically pleasing.

 

harden is a better defender than lebron the past ~3yrs, trae, doncic etc.

and yet he's hated for his defense all day everyday as well. how does this relate to his stationaryness?

 

Defensive reputation has a lot of inertia. That inertia gave Kobe some undeserved all defensive team selections. Harden created a reputation for below average defense for about 5 seasons as a Rocket. He has improved mostly in post defense. He still is below average in help defense at the perimeter because he has lazy feet. He excels on defense when he can use his body. He is good at iso defense but horrible when the offense he's guarding is in motion and is using screen at the perimeter.

 

harden is a steals leader every year, a large number of those coming by covering large swaths of court space to intercept passes

but getting back to the other guys mentioned (lebron, trae, doncic, etc)... these guys plus guys like lou williams and westbrook, for instance, are not only horrible when the offense is in motion, they're just horrible defensively period. why does not 90% of the media and 90% of non-rocket fans clown them all day everyday?

 

Steals can often be an indicator of playing passing lanes rather than moving your feet to fight through screens and stay with a offensive player when they are in motion.

Let's put it this way. Harden plays defense with his hands and body strength. He doesn't play defense by moving his feet laterally quickly.

Westbrook is universally seen as a lesser player than Harden. Even those who believe Westbrook's motor is far better than Harden and is also more fun to watch than Harden will readily admits that Harden is still the far superior player.

 

doncic and lebron are currently seen as GREATER players than harden, particularly in mvp polls. why are they not getting hate all day everyday for their much worse D?

 

LeBron is playing worse D than Harden? I think that's very debatable.

 

previous 2 seasons it wasn't debatable at all. not debatable this season with doncic either

 

Tony Allen, Shane Battier were also defensive savants. Still didn’t put them anywhere near top 5 for a decade.
13-14 Kawhi averaged 12 pts a game
The next season he averaged 16.
Less than half of the decade he’s been an elite player.

 

It’s really not. The media pumps Lebron up as a great defender, mainly because the team is playing great defense and he’s Lebron.
Stats show that Harden is a better defender, period.
Among the league leader in steals and deflections, post defense and when looking at Raptor Defensive ratings Harden is clearly better.


Edit:Current rankings Lebron is leading in raptor ratings as of today. Harden had been leading majority of season

 

Kawhi has been at least his teams 3rd leading scorer since his second season, in a system that spread the ball. Not the case for the other guys you listed. They also didn’t have DPOY awards or a Finals MVP.

 

3rd leading scorer on a team is the standard for all decade team?

 

Kawhi has been elite player for 4-5 years. Before he was an elite defensive player. No one is putting Shane Battier or Tony Allen or Bruce Bowen on all decade teams.

If they said since 2016 then yes he’s a top 3 player

 

3rd leading scorer shows you shouldn’t be comparing his offensive contributions to the likes of Tony Allen or Battier. His body of work and contributions for the decade can stand on their own.

FYI, some people are in the HOF mainly for their defensive contributions. It’s not all about offense.

 

So when I go pull up stats to show Battier was a 3rd option you’ll agree Kawhi shouldn’t be on a decade team?

 

You won’t pull stats showing he was a 3rd option for any season he was making all nba defensive impact like Kawhi. Well all Nba impact, cuz he was never as impactful defensively as Kawhi. Feel free to get your research on.

 

Battier wasn’t an all NBA defender?

 

Bottom line is Kawhi was a role player until 2016

 

Lebron copies Harden offensively. And people praising Lebron for his offensive skills today piss me off a lot.

Defensively, Lebron has been terrible in the past season. With better supporting cast, Lebron is back to elite defensive numbers but I can't say it's because of Lebron, it's mostly the rest of the team.

 

Elite role player but still. As a spur he averaged 17 pts a game over 7 seasons.