[Official Thread] Media/Player Reaction to James Harden 2019-2020

No doubt, but he was also only effective for half the decade. His numbers for the decade don’t compare to any on that list.
He did have a couple really dominant years, with rings.
Harden was better than Westbrook, Curry and Kawhi

 

There is no pass from that embarrassing effort. Championship teams don't do that

 

Except they do.

The 72-win 95-96 Bulls lost a game to the 21-win Raptors, for example.

Look at this roster. Probably on par with current GS?
Roster

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No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Exp College
40 Willie Anderson SG 6-7 190 January 8, 1967 us 7 Georgia
13 Doug Christie SF 6-6 200 May 9, 1970 us 3 Pepperdine
55 Acie Earl C 6-10 240 June 23, 1970 us 2 Iowa
4 Vincenzo Esposito PG 6-3 198 March 1, 1969 it R
24 Jimmy King SG 6-5 210 August 9, 1973 us R Michigan
44 Martin Lewis SF 6-5 210 April 28, 1975 us R Butler County Community College, Seward County Community College
9 Tony Massenburg PF 6-9 220 July 31, 1967 us 3 Maryland
30 Oliver Miller PF 6-9 280 April 6, 1970 us 3 Arkansas
35 Tracy Murray SF 6-7 225 July 25, 1971 us 3 UCLA
52 Dan O'Sullivan C 6-10 250 March 3, 1968 us 3 Fordham
54 Ed Pinckney PF 6-9 195 March 27, 1963 us 10 Villanova
7 Alvin Robertson SG 6-3 185 July 22, 1962 us 9 Arkansas
33 Carlos Rogers PF 6-11 220 February 6, 1971 us 1 Little Rock, Tennessee State
22 John Salley PF 6-11 230 May 16, 1964 us 9 Georgia Tech
20 Damon Stoudamire PG 5-10 171 September 3, 1973 us R Arizona
3 Žan Tabak C 7-0 245 June 15, 1970 hr 1
23 Dwayne Whitfield PF 6-9 240 August 21, 1972 us R Jackson State University
32 Herb Williams C 6-10 242 February 16, 1958 us 14 Ohio State
9 Sharone Wright C 6-11 260 January 30, 1973 us 1 Clemson

 

I'm not defending any effort, but even the 73-win Warriors lost to some scrub teams. But then again, I guess they weren't a championship team that year, either, so maybe you're right. LOL.

 

You know why? The guy gets to rest 20 games plus a season due to load management. Imagine if Harden had the rest Kawhi gets. Not to mention, look at the teams Kawhi has played for..... pretty much stacked teams in my opinion.

 

so many former rockets on that team.... tracy murray, carlos rogers, zan tabak, tony massenburg.... mighty mouse should sort of count too

 

Nah....Dirk used to catch it pretty bad post 07.

 

He led his team to a title. That number matters a lot.

 

I would agree usually. But I don’t think the list was made off of rings, or else Westbrook wouldn’t be on there.
Best individual players of the decade without Harden in the top 5 isn’t even remotely being objective.

 

Nobody ever said Dirk “was ruining basketball” or “not playing basketball the right way”

 

I mean ya. Do you think it's racism? Houston? Or people just not like iso dribbling the ball out for 20 seconds and just standing around when the ball isn't in your hand and being notorious for arm hooking and foul baiting? Dirk did foul bait, especially with the rip through move. But Harden is more notorious for foul baiting.

We just have to accept it as Rocket fans and hope one day that style can win a ring so people will overlook it.

 

Ruining basketball, no. Not playing the right way, with a big deciding to shoot jumpers all day, all the time. Choker, etc...all the time.

 

so i saw doncic's return game a couple nites ago. what i was most impressed with is his motor, which is clearly superior to beard's. he is constantly in motion especially on offensive rebs. i think he's also a better pure shooter than beard. however his foot speed and first step are nowhere near beardo's. and to compensate he is CONSTANTLY pushing off the defender. and when he can't get separation he's jumping into the defender, like several times a quarter -- and getting the calls! so basically, the point of my post is, what harden is most maligned for doncic seems to be celebrated for and is also getting rewarded by the zebras. will that change after time or after success? probably not b/c like the golden skin worriers, he's one of the "good" guys

 

Harden is definitely a quicker version of Donic or shall I say Donic is a slower version of Harden. His foot speed is definitely slower and I notice that also. Harden is also much stronger.

However, one of the main reasons Harden is hated by the media is that they see him as a iso scorer only who doesn't do anything else in the game. They think he just stands around when the ball isn't in his hands and is slow footed on defense. They don't likemhim holding the ball for 20 seconds before initiating the offense.

I'm sure Donic foul baits also but like you said, he doesn't have the motor issue that Harden has. He is far more willing to play off ball also and makes quicker decisions with the ball instead of often holding and dribbling between the legs for 20 seconds.

Harden's ball holding and lack of effort when the ball isn't in his hands rubs third party neutral fans the wrong way.

It's the culmination of foul baiting, being lazy when the ball isn't in his hands, holding on to the ball and just watching everyone stand around around for 20 seconds, a couple of very atrocious series such as the Spurs series all culminate to a general distaste by the media. It has nothing to do with the media inherently hating Houston or the media is racist towards Harden etc. It's just the play style and some embarrassing playoff series. Luka hasn't had his playoff failures yet. The media also likes younger fresher faces.

I do believe the media has a hive mind mentality where eventually the hating and distaste goes over the top to the point the media sometimes will not give credit to Harden when it's due. I so get pissed when the media acts as if the Rockets recent playoff performances were chokes when we were playing against one of the most stacked teams in NBA history.

 

errr, why do you keep repeating that harden holds the ball for 20sec

you realize that's not possible, right?

it is a verbatim typical clueless talking point of a harden hater though

anyways, harden is also hated for the FT's. doncic is averaging a hefty 9 per game and gets zero flak for it. you may be right about the skin color not playing a majority role in this. but to say it plays no role at all can't be accurate

 

Sorry for the exaggeration. He holds the ball or dribbles between his legs on spot on the floor longer than any player in the league and it can often go up to 15 seconds with him just standing there or dribbling between the legs on one spot.

 

actually trae young has longer time of possession than harden and luka is only very slightly below harden at #3

in avg sec per touch harden's #5

in avg dribbles per touch harden's #4

in touches overall harden's #7 and luka's #3

 

Touches don't state how a player stays on one spot on the floor.

Smaller guards like Trae, CP3 and Nash are constantly moving and dribbling with the ball probing the defense to make a mistake. Harden occasionally does that but no where near as much as smaller pgs like CP3 and Trae. To neutral fans that is fine because when the pg is probing in and out of the paint area and mid range area, his teammates are also moving without the ball. The offense has motion. Teammates are engaged moving in sync with the pg who is probing the defense.

Most of Harden's touches and dribbles are in a stationary iso position. It creates the appearance of ball hogging because everyone on the court is just standing and watching you.

 

Kawhi has been an all league defender since 2013. Offense isn’t all that matters.

 

so it turns out they actually hate him for his stationaryness..

even though they're constantly b****ing about him 'ballhogging' and playing for FT's, which incidentally doncic does just as much..