Right but I don't see the relation to the 0-27 stretch. Just to clarify, here's what you're saying- What actually happened: Missed 3, Missed 3, Harden makes driving layup, Harden passes out to wide open shooter who misses 3 What you think would've happened: Missed 3, Missed 3, Westbrook makes driving layup, Westbrook passes out to wide open shooter but he makes it (because Westbrook???) Why do you think that? It just doesn't make sense to me. You think Westbrook making driving layups is going to have a different impact on our wide open shooters compared to Harden making those same layups?
No, that's not what I think happens, I explained that Westbrook brings a mentality to a team. I've already seen guys pump faking, taking drives instead of 3s, getting easier buckets. Maybe this isn't all on Russ, but Russ has the mentality of attack attack and it's like @hakeem94 said, getting layups can boost confidence for the next time you shoot a three. I think all star players bring their mentality to a team and CP3 had that same mentality as Harden while Russ's mentality is aggressive and his teams usually play that way.
Russ generates the same kind of offense Harden does, drive and kick, open 3 point shooters, he's always done that. Why are the open shots he generates less than Harden? I think the Rockets wouldn't have been up at all if it were just some solid shooter in place of Russ. Do they get 13 boards? 13 more possessions? Do they get any points off the break? Does Harden have anyone else that can create offense on the team? Everyone just wants nothing but three and D guys, what does that do for a team? Thunder tried this when KD left, it didn't really help them at all. Rockets were basically this last year, nothing but shooters outside of Rivers occassionaly creating or even House. CP3 couldn't do that as well anymore, you've said as much all throughout the year last year, CP3 could play defense, run a set, hit a shot. Fine. But there are tons of PGs in the league that can do that. What Russ provides too is the ability to create offense and not make it so Harden isn't carrying the load all the time. Just look at Russ's usg vs CP3s, at the very least, if you hate everything Russ brings to a team, at the very least he's able to take some of the workload off of Harden.
I want to make sure I'm understanding this. You think Westbrooks attacking mentality would have rubbed off on our other players, encouraging them to drive? Harden and Gordon were already driving, so we can ignore them. You think Gerald Green, Ariza, and PJ would catch the ball open on the 3 point line, but dribble drive instead of shooting open threes, resulting in made layups. Then as a result of them making those layups, those three guys would be more likely to make their next three? Is that right?
“I must congratulate you, Inspector, on handling so distinctive and instructive a case. Your powers, if I may say so without offence, seem superior to your opportunities.”
Wiling passer Westbrook will be even more effective once EG is back to 100%....Everything will begin to fit like a glove once the floor opens up a little more. Can't wait..... Westbrook is a Superstar, and superstars take time to align and incorporate...it is still too early. But I KNOW it is going to work for the best. Plus we arent complete yet....even tho i think everyone healthy CAN WIN THE SHIP.
Yep, it's a pretty common thing that players are taught to do when not making 3 pointers, to get something easier to get going. Other than Gordon and Harden, everyone else avoided the paint. Tucker had a shot or two inside. Not that it matters with the personel being different. Now, Ariza and Green had shots in the paint but what quality of shots were they? Westbrook generates fast break points, we are no longer strictly a half court team, we have a new dimension added to us where CP3 was just a double down on what Harden did.
Well I definitely don't agree but this is a much more defensible position than I'm used to seeing. At least it makes sense. Thanks for explaining and clarifying.
I guess that's where we disagree. CP3 isn't doing anything that Rivers can't do. Russ at least adds dimensions to this team we didn't have, makes it more athletic, doesn't have to be fed shots, can carry some of the load...not many players in the NBA can bring what he brings, you make the trade, take the risk, and hope things will work out in the end. I think we went as far as we could with CP3, no sense banging into the wall for the rest of his contract when you have an out.
Christ Almighty....c'mon man. That's silly lmao. Where is the evidence Westbrook can "carry some of the load"? Team has been statistically terrible when he does not share the floor with Harden. He needs to improve greatly in that area before we can comfortably say that. Despite your correct assertion that not many in the league bring what he brings, 40% from the field, 22% from 3, on 20 shots a game is not going to beat anybody of substance come playoff time. I'm sorry...it just isn't. Time will tell if he can come around, though I don't see any reason why he will.
I agree CP3 isn't doing anything that Rivers can't do. But Rivers is a better NBA player than Westbrook at this point. Yeah. I said it. A solid nba vet that plays solid defense, doesn't make all of the bad decisions that Westbrook makes and can shoot at a league average percentage is a HUGE upgrade over Russ. That's why we're something like -16.9 when Russ is on the floor without Harden.
What can CP3 do what Rivers can't? CP3 just does it better. Rivers is an average defender, good some nights, above average playmaker, good shooter. He does the same thing CP3 does, CP3 does it better, but it's the same. Also, the evidence is Westbrook's entire career? His usage rate is still high also his +/- has been trending upwards the past few games. Seems safer to assume that he's going to play to his averages to me.
He's shooting better than Westbrook, of course, but again...you can find many guards in the NBA that do exactly that. Run sets, hit open shots, play a little defense. Those are not hard to find, that's almost what you expect from a guard. Play defense, run plays, hit a shot...and usually they can't really affect the game defensively so CP3 has that going for him. Westbrook is a rare talent in how he affects the game. His rebounding for a guard is literally historic and not many uber-athletic guards you will find for cheap below 10 million a year, most of them get the max for a reason, because they are rare.
Well if THAT'S what you're saying, then I agree. I thought you were equating. Fair enough. Still...CP3's IQ elevates him in a way others do not. As for your 2nd point...sure, even I don't think Westbrook can possibly be THIS bad for the whole season. But given his playoff performances the past 3 years, and how he's trending this year, are we really expecting it to be up to par with what it'll need to be to beat teams like MIL, LAC, LAL, etc.? I certainly don't think so. He's consistently around 40/30 shooting splits. Just not efficient enough in the playoffs. Hope I'm wrong
Last 2 games Westbrook is the only net negative player on the team at -1.7 So far Rivers is the only other player who has played significant minutes that has a worse net rating on the season. These ratings numbers have been trending downward for 3-4 years now. You can not bank on regression back to his prime. I find it unlikely that he will continue to be this putrid offensively, because honestly it’s hard to be THIS bad. But he’s not coming any where near any of his past good years.
